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Old 05-12-2013, 15:16   #31
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Guys, whether the guys who hired the boat, if that's what they did, are not the owners of said boat. How much they are worth is irrelevant. Though I seriously doubt that boat was on a charter if they stopped to tow in a derelict.
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Old 05-12-2013, 15:22   #32
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

The term 'abandoned' carries a specific meaning in maritime law. Layman and professionals alike get hung up on this in cases of salvage. An unoccupied vessel due to distress is not necessarily abandoned.

I would expect if one were to seek to exert right of claim upon such a vessel they may find themselves liable for damages, physical or exemplary, incurred by them removing the vessel from the location or condition in which they found it. That includes person(s) from a passing vessel which caused the vessel to founder or sink. This especially if scant merit to the claim of the supposed salvor.

The law regarding salvage often seems vague.
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Old 05-12-2013, 15:33   #33
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

To the best of my knowledge even though abandoned the yacht still belongs to the owner or if insured to the underwriters ( or if she had come ashore in the British Isles to the Receiver of Wrecks).
So the salvors can't just keep the boat.. they would have to pursue a salvage claim through the courts at a cost of how many dollars? and that boat would be worth exactly how much in the BVI in the current market? 20k? 30k?? Hmmmmm....
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Old 05-12-2013, 15:42   #34
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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I would expect if one were to seek to exert right of claim upon such a vessel they may find themselves liable for damages, physical or exemplary, incurred by them removing the vessel from the location or condition in which they found it. That includes person(s) from a passing vessel which caused the vessel to founder or sink. This especially if scant merit to the claim of the supposed salvor.

The law regarding salvage often seems vague.
An 'abandoned vessel' is one that is stuck in the muck. A vessel can be abandoned on the high sea without it becoming an 'abandoned vessel'. But this semantic issue is not one that is applicable here.

If you find a vessel with no one aboard on the high seas drifting aimlessly, out of control, and tow it safely ashore, then you are entitled to a maritime salvage lein. The value of which is determined by the courts based on a number of factors.

This is a huge body of law admittedly, but the basics are pretty simple. Trying to get into minutia to make it sound more complicated doesn't help the 99% of issues being addressed.
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Old 05-12-2013, 17:17   #35
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

A fine fellow from NC named Bernie Harberts once found a twin engine boat out in the middle of the ocean with two naked maniquines(sps) tied to it..I think it spooked him to the point of not wanting to salvage it ..I think there are videos on youtube about his trip around the world on his boat Seabird when he
finds the drifting boat(with naked maniquines)..
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:10   #36
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Looking at the photo in the OP I would suggest the 'fishermen' have towed that boat about 5 miles....
Perhaps, but in salvage law that's not particularly germane. The fact that the owner left the boat to the elements and, in effect, passers-by, is.
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:17   #37
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Perhaps, but in salvage law that's not particularly germane. The fact that the owner left the boat to the elements and, in effect, passers-by, is.
Yes, it is a slippery slope deciding who is entitled to something, based on perceived status, or our judgement of the risk or expense they incurred. I guess that is why there are laws, although hardly perfect. In a perfect world the owner would be glad to pay some compensation and the salvor would be reasonable. There are nice people everywhere that care more about helping than a fat payday, but there are plenty more that regardless of financial status are always looking to exploit a situation.
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:28   #38
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pirate Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

True... I've towed a couple 25 miles into Palma, Mallorca and not asked for a dime.. but if I find an abandoned boat.. well that's a whole different ball game..
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:29   #39
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Yes, it is a slippery slope deciding who is entitled to something, based on perceived status, or our judgement of the risk or expense they incurred. I guess that is why there are laws, although hardly perfect. In a perfect world the owner would be glad to pay some compensation and the salvor would be reasonable. There are nice people everywhere that care more about helping than a fat payday, but there are plenty more that regardless of financial status are always looking to exploit a situation.
Very true, but the law cuts both ways. Would I prefer that I pay for the fuel and the time of a salvor instead of some court-mandated portion of the value, because the salvor was a kind soul? Yes, of course. But I would also hope that, having abandoned my boat using the maritime law of what "abandoned" means, that a salvor could only charge me what was fair and not a penny more.

I would also have insurance to cover that eventuality, I would think. I have a custom boat I could never hope to replace, as the cost of rebuilding is three times its worth on the open market. So that would factor into my decision-making.

Recall the story of the "Perfect Storm" Westsail 32, "Satori", that beached itself more or less intact. The owner, who had sustained a broken arm in what he considered an unnecessary rescue, rented a plane to search for beach in question, found some volunteers and refloated the boat. Shortly thereafter he continued his voyaging! So there's always hope, I suppose.

Westsail Owners Association - Satori - Perfect Storm the whole story
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:40   #40
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pirate Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

So... if I'm doing a solo crossing and I come across that Oyster that was abandoned... get it functional and tie my lil boat behind and continue to Europe I'd be expected to contact the owner and say 'here's your boat mate'... and walk away...
Dream on boys... its hard out there... just most of you don't know how hard..
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:03   #41
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Dream on boys... its hard out there... just most of you don't know how hard..
Wow I guess you're the only one on here with any real world experience. Please enlighten every sailor on here how hard it is. Although I'm curious with all your experience how you've had the time to post 11,000 times in 3 years. To me it seems to be a conflict, are you sailing all the time with tons of experience or posting 8 posts a day on a website?
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:12   #42
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Wow I guess you're the only one on here with any real world experience. Please enlighten every sailor on here how hard it is. Although I'm curious with all your experience how you've had the time to post 11,000 times in 3 years. To me it seems to be a conflict, are you sailing all the time with tons of experience or posting 8 posts a day on a website?
If you took the time to do a little research before suggesting that Boatie is a phony... well, you would probably not have said the above.

FYI, Phil is a delivery skipper and does have "tons of experience", is known to several CF regulars, and is, well, outspoken and a bit weird! I for one respect his opinions, except, of course, when he disagrees with me!

Cheers,

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Old 06-12-2013, 10:25   #43
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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If you took the time to do a little research before suggesting that Boatie is a phony... well, you would probably not have said the above.

FYI, Phil is a delivery skipper and does have "tons of experience", is known to several CF regulars, and is, well, outspoken and a bit weird! I for one respect his opinions, except, of course, when he disagrees with me!

Cheers,

Jim
Jim that very well may be and he may have a wealth of knowledge that should be shared. However him coming off with condescending remarks implying he is the end all of knowledge and most people just don't know how it is, is the wrong way to go about it. I don't care how much you know if the only way you know how to get it across is to belittle others and pound your chest. I will call a spade a spade every time especially against people that use hubris instead of humbleness.

As an extension of this Thank you Jim. I am glad that you did stand up for him and verify his credentials but my previous statements still stand. A little humility will go a long way with how his info would be received.
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:27   #44
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pirate Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post
Wow I guess you're the only one on here with any real world experience. Please enlighten every sailor on here how hard it is. Although I'm curious with all your experience how you've had the time to post 11,000 times in 3 years. To me it seems to be a conflict, are you sailing all the time with tons of experience or posting 8 posts a day on a website?
Well... if some of you took the time to Welcome newbies to CF instead of being up your own ass.. maybe you'd have as many posts as well...
Sheesh... baby sailors...
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:29   #45
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Jim that very well may be and he may have a wealth of knowledge that should be shared. However him coming off with condescending remarks implying he is the end all of knowledge and most people just don't know how it is, is the wrong way to go about it. I don't care how much you know if the only way you know how to get it across is to belittle others and pound your chest. I will call a spade a spade every time especially against people that use hubris instead of humbleness.

As an extension of this Thank you Jim. I am glad that you did stand up for him and verify his credentials but my previous statements still stand. A little humility will go a long way with how his info would be received.
Oh, you mean sorta like you've been belittling every one who disagrees with you on this thread?
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