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Old 05-12-2013, 09:34   #16
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

The moral thing to have done would've been to slit the hoses before leaving the boat as it was a navigational hazard adrift.

Just my opinion, but also SOP for responsible boat owners who must leave.

The fishermen deserve compensation for their lost time, costs, wear on their boat and the hazard of taking a heavy sailboat in tow over the open ocean. There's not really an emotional aspect to this, thanks to centuries of maritime law.

To go to sea as a solo sailor without this in the back of one's mind, the "what if I'm taken off and have to leave my boat to the elements?" is like understanding one should use seatbelts, but opting to go beltless.

It's on you.
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:51   #17
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

I'm not saying there shouldn't be some type of compensation. However as some people have suggested I don't feel like it should be looked at as a huge "Pay Day". That being said you as a fisherman, sailor, boater or whatever are under no obligation to tow in said vessel. You have every right to leave it where it be or sink it to eliminate the hazard. It is your choice to go through the pain staking process of towing the vessel back to land and your choice alone. Not knowing whether or not the owner has the ability to pay.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:03   #18
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pirate Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

Personally if I came across an abandoned boat I would bring it in if I considered it worth the effort.. or sink it if it was a mess.
As to the compensation side the owner who has abandoned the boat has already chosen to 'write off his asset'.. if insured he'll be compensated for the loss.. if not he'll just have to take the pain..
However in no way would I feel the least bit of guilt in making a claim against the vessel to its insurers or owner..
Why should I..??
I have done what they were not prepared/unable to do... namely brought it safely to a port.
If you go to Sea.. like me.. You take your chances...
Don't like that.. then buy a camper van.. but you'll still get billed for any towing... lmao
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:41   #19
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

If the owner has insurance, they will work it out. If not, and the owner wants his boat back and it ends up in court, the judge will usually allow a reasonable towing fee to the salvager. I once met a guy who went through that - he abandoned the boat during a helicopter evacuation due to a heart attack. .
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:44   #20
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

No freebies in this tough old world. You know going in that you leave your boat at sea its up for salvage rights.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:04   #21
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

For those interested, Safe Sea has a very good (though somewhat biased towards salvors) history of marine salvage, the reasons why it's different than land salvage, differences between towing and salving, an explanation of why awards can be high-value, and some examples of salvage cases of recreational boats.
Marine Salvage & Recreational Boaters: Modern Concepts & Misconceptions - Introduction
Having seen a number of threads on salvage on CF, I was curious if it could really be as straight-forward as so many make it sound - and, surprise, it's not!

As far as awards go - most of the recreational awards Safe Sea cites come in to about one-quarter of the boat's assumed marketplace value after salvaging. Not a bad payoff in many cases.

For my part, I'm amazed that there's not a cottage industry of people running around cutting anchor rodes and claiming that the boat was drifting onto shore and so eligible for salvage.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:06   #22
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

p.s. It turns out that the one time I witnessed a monohull go aground and the crew taken off by police and coast guard, the boat wouldn't have been eligible for salvage due to the lack of peril. Glad I didn't climb aboard and try to kedge it off. I'll now return to swimming off Martha's Vineyard and waiting for storm-abandoned boats to come to me.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:37   #23
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
The fishermen deserve compensation for their lost time, costs, wear on their boat and the hazard of taking a heavy sailboat in tow over the open ocean.
Looking at the photo in the OP I would suggest the 'fishermen' have towed that boat about 5 miles....
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Old 05-12-2013, 13:39   #24
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Looking at the photo in the OP I would suggest the 'fishermen' have towed that boat about 5 miles....
Ya know, Frank, I think you have a good point there!

Can anyone believe that the pictured tow boat would have the power or fuel capacity to travel 400 miles minimum out to sea, find and get a line on the yacht, and then tow it 400 miles back?

Seems at least dubious to me, and exaggerating the tow distance would influence the salvage award from a maritime court. Who can tell from this remove, but I'm at least a bit suspicious.

And as to the "moral" issue: the very minimum award that would be morally correct IMO would be compensation for fuel and wear/tear, plus time lost from normal fishing activities. To pay less would place an "immoral" burden on the good Samaritan who may well be ill-equipped to bear those costs.

Cheers,

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Old 05-12-2013, 13:44   #25
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

Hola Jim,

the OP sez 'The boat was 400 miles N of Puerto Rico when abandoned. '....

I think the boat came to the salvors... they didn't go to it....

If I was the salvor a slab of beer would work for me...
Salud,
Frank
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Old 05-12-2013, 14:36   #26
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Hola Jim,

the OP sez 'The boat was 400 miles N of Puerto Rico when abandoned. '....

I think the boat came to the salvors... they didn't go to it....

If I was the salvor a slab of beer would work for me...
Salud,
Frank
Ah, quite so. Some of the rhetoric in the thread caused me to loose the plot there... we don't know where they picked up the tow.

At any rate, I hope that the owner and the boat are reunited, and that all involved feel ok in the end... even the moral police on CF!

Cheers,

Jim

PS Flying back to Tassie on the 15th. When do you return?
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Old 05-12-2013, 14:37   #27
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

ETA am 16th
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Old 05-12-2013, 14:46   #28
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Just my quick experance with towing on land. I have had to remove a vehicle before off of the side of the road due to the driver alone having a medical condition. For being ordered by police to remove it from the roadway to a secure lot without the keys does incur a cost to the owner. Many times the tow can be submitted to insurance but when the police call we haul. We have a contract set with the municipal of what we charge for what we do. That is as well viewable to the public in the town or state ordnance. If I owned a tow company for how few times it does happen I would wright it off and expect nothing for it being a medical condition and the owner knew better to pull over and get help instead of plowing forward and possibly doing quite worse. That's just me tho.

I understand it's a whole different world with salvage and in the seas, but using towing on land it's a different set of laws all together. If a person saw your car and had a tow company pick it up and take it home that is theft on land any way you look at it. The tow operator should know better especailly if there are no keys and can not verify ownership through the registration paperwork.

I do wonder how it does pan out for the owner of this salvage. Is he going to pursue his home if it's all he has? I do believe tho the fishing vessel should get something and not just hand it over if they just see money and a opportunity. But what is fare? We don't know of the fishing boat is having a string of poor catches or is bringing the sailboat back after making its run and has a full boat. All factors in considering what is fare and a loss of work imo. Maybe half days pay and the extra fuel it costs to tow it back. Is that fare? The fiahing vessel did not take a special trip to go searching for the abandoned sailboat. How much time was lost to tow it in? I am guessing atleast double the fuel it usually runs through pending on wind and seas. Loss of speed is what? Instead of cruising at 15 knots it's going at 5?

Me if I could bring it in without much trouble and I faired out well I would be more then happy to let the owner have his vessel back with nothing expected to be given back. If he feels the need to hand over something that's all up to the owner. I get what I need when I really need it. If I incurred damage somehow I will bring it up to the owner if I made contact with them as part of the story but it's more of a adventure and a story to tell later on about my character. Weather people want to believe or not.

I've helped a few people out on the sides of the roads when I was not on my hourly pay late at night returning from a call and I felt I would not be stepping on another tow company's territory. I did not charge or ask for money for my help since I stopped and asked if I could do anything to get them goin faster.
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Old 05-12-2013, 14:54   #29
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Re: Abandoned cruisng boat recovered in the BVI after a month at seas

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We don't know of the fishing boat is having a string of poor catches or is bringing the sailboat back after making its run and has a full boat.
Once again have a look at the pic in the OP.... its not some local bloke fishing to feed his family.... it's what you would probably call a 'sportsfisher' or something... most likely crewed by rich punters on holiday and just out for a day killing fish for sport.....

Just looked at the map.... she seems to have drifted in a southerly direction at maybe 12 miles a day.
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Old 05-12-2013, 15:07   #30
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Ty. I can hardly tell by looking at the pics on my phone since my laptops are in dire need for updating the hardware.

Some rich folks just out for the hell of it then what's to lose for them? Morally it does change my opinion. Hopefully they do just give it back then without trying for compensation.
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