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Old 29-03-2013, 06:29   #121
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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post

Thats all fine for Tech geeks, its not useful in moving the debate forward. It in effect proves nothing

dave
Well, it takes care of the autopilot head argument. It is very little effort to document these and create an app that replaces the AP head. I don't think it will take a year before Simrad/B&G comes with such an app themselves.
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Old 29-03-2013, 06:37   #122
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Well, it takes care of the autopilot head argument. It is very little effort to document these and create an app that replaces the AP head. I don't think it will take a year before Simrad/B&G comes with such an app themselves.

I dont agree Nick, There are safety issues as well. Do you expect to see a Dreamliner flown by a ipad. Simrads go free strategy is to ensure that the MFD remains in system. IN essence its acts as a gateway device so that access to the NMEA2K network is controlled. Thats likely to be the methodology of most manufacturers going forward and there are good reasons for it.

Reverse engineering is really useless as there is no commitment from the manufacturer to maintain cross compatibility or even support any reverse engineering. Its also easy to destroy the reverse engineering process with encryption or just token exchanges. it may be a useful "geeky" thing to do , but its not a solution to "a tablet to replace them all"

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Old 29-03-2013, 06:49   #123
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Dave, a Simrad AP can already be controlled by the new Simrad or B&G cockpit multi displays. They could encrypt things which is a futile path. Reverse engineering this is as useful as the jailbrakes are for iPhones etc. and they are very popular. The manufacturers will not start encrypting things nor use any other protection measures.

I would love to get rid of all the display units of all the gear we have and replace them with a couple of iPads. I would still want the N2K network with it's sensors.

P.s. Shipmodul.com also makes a 0183 to ethernet mux/gateway.
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Old 29-03-2013, 06:57   #124
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

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I would love to get rid of all the display units of all the gear we have and replace them with a couple of iPads. I would still want the N2K network with it's sensors.
I know that Nick, but you are hardly mainstream!!!!

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Old 29-03-2013, 08:11   #125
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

There are a couple of wireless N2K gateways. Chetco SeaSmart and DMK Box.
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Old 29-03-2013, 09:05   #126
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

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There are a couple of wireless N2K gateways. Chetco SeaSmart and DMK Box.
all of them different

of course today if you just want to read public PGNs of NMEA2K to TCP/IP it can be done, but its far from ideal and a million miles away from the techno-future ideas expressed here.

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Old 29-03-2013, 10:56   #127
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

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I think Raymarine has there wireless devices powered by solar.
Heh. I just knew there was a wire in there somewhere.
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Old 29-03-2013, 12:24   #128
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

I Feel like this has boiled down to "one display to rule them all"..... I thought the original point of this debate was whether or not a tablet could actually "replace" marine systems and thence reduce dependence on expensive, proprietary marine hardware. Thence the debate over the necessity for STW data versus gps provided SOG data, and whether or not that was sufficient to remove that marine system (through hull sensor, cabling and display).

Here's a couple of essential marine systems that I think the tablet cannot replace.
1. Shipboard communications: Your radios and antenna.
2. Your emergency communications: EPIRB or other location transponder.
3. Weather sensing: Your marine weather radar, and display.
4. Sonar sensing: Fishfinder for those that use it....
5. wind speed and direction: your windvane and speed sensor.

Okay. I can see the Ipad being a replacement for chartplotters and other shipboard software (cos that's all a chartplotter really is: a hunk of plastic with software embedded). But never for hardware. There will of course be a debate about whether some of the luxury shipboard systems are actually neccessary, but disposal of these extras is not the same as replacement.

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Old 30-03-2013, 17:02   #129
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

I just ran my iPad with iNavX yesterday.

I will say this, it is harder to see in bright sunlight than I thought it would be.
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Old 30-03-2013, 19:23   #130
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

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I just ran my iPad with iNavX yesterday.

I will say this, it is harder to see in bright sunlight than I thought it would be.
Did you increase the brightness setting to maximum? I found that most iPad users don't know hot to find the setting

(double click home button, scroll back, not forward, one page and you get volume and brightness controls).
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Old 30-03-2013, 22:25   #131
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

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Did you increase the brightness setting to maximum? I found that most iPad users don't know hot to find the setting

(double click home button, scroll back, not forward, one page and you get volume and brightness controls).
Yes, but Apple products are user friendly.
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Old 31-03-2013, 11:10   #132
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

Hey thank you all for your answers! I wasn't expecting such a success. It turned out to be very interesting (for me at least) and thanks to many of you I have here a lot of information, and a lot of possibilities and setup to explore.

I'll definitely give a try to a tablet as a main GPS next time I replace mine, and I'll also get rid of 2 thru-hulls (speed and depth), speed being entrusted to the GPS and depth being reconfigured with an in-hull). I'll also have my instruments (depth and AP) "talk" to the tablet. I won't do that until Jan 2014, which gives me enough time to try all the apps and setup mentioned by others, and chose which tablet and apps will suit me best. My feeling after this discussion is that Apple is still ahead, especially regarding the users' community and the apps, but there are now other powerful alternative (software/hardware) that still somehow lack of proper app / community support to equal apple's iNavX and other sailing apps. But I'll give them a try.

Regarding having the tablet controlling the autopilot, it seems that my feeling is confirmed by those of you who actually know something about IT: it is theoretically possible, but no product or app or plug-and-use system has been invented yet for the non-IT savvy. Whether or not it will happen, we'll see, I'm usually inclined to believe that progress in history doesn't come from the big companies, but from smart individuals that believe in change or just "try", so I wouldn't be surprised if it happened despite the lack of good will of the marine industry).
So I'm not planning to install this setup yet, but who knows what happens before the end of the year.

The end result will be a tablet for everything apart from depth and autopilot.
I will also empower the tablet with permanent charge setup and a waterproof case of course , and also with a 50 dBi wifi antenna that will allow me to receive weather forecast, check my emails and skype in 90% of the anchorages and maybe even under way sometimes , for free.
Thanks again to all for sharing your knowledge and experience! Feel free to continue discussing if you want to go more in details or if you have other tablets/ apps being used for sailing
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Old 31-03-2013, 15:06   #133
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

"but no product or app or plug-and-use system has been invented yet for the non-IT savvy."

The new autopilots want to see NMEA 2000 or NMEA 18x (RS-232 serial) data. The tablets want to output USB. So an old laptop would feed an autopilot what it wants (serial data) but a tablet?

Eh, the data is all in there, the tablet can push it out. Media conversion, bridges, massaging data, oh, and RayMarine's SeaTalk if you need it?

All that is what Scientific American used to call "a simple exercise left to the reader".

Slinging data is like slinging hash, except you don't need to wash your apron.
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Old 31-03-2013, 15:16   #134
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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"but no product or app or plug-and-use system has been invented yet for the non-IT savvy."

The new autopilots want to see NMEA 2000 or NMEA 18x (RS-232 serial) data. The tablets want to output USB. So an old laptop would feed an autopilot what it wants (serial data) but a tablet?

Eh, the data is all in there, the tablet can push it out. Media conversion, bridges, massaging data, oh, and RayMarine's SeaTalk if you need it?

All that is what Scientific American used to call "a simple exercise left to the reader".

Slinging data is like slinging hash, except you don't need to wash your apron.
Are you okay?
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Old 31-03-2013, 15:33   #135
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

Thanks for asking, Nick.

But yes, when passing data around across disparate media and formats, some of us call it 'slinging' data. You grab it here, you toss it there, you massage it around (yes, the word is massage) and make the next machine or platform happy to see it.

It really is about as complicated as being a short order cook, a job usually called "slinging hash" in the US. You throw the hash on the grill, you heat is up, move it around, throw it on the plate. Sometimes with eggs. Other than moving it around, you're not doing much to it. In many ways the job is the same, baffling or complex or unattractive to the customer but fairly simple and mechanical to the guy doing it.

Except, the guy slinging hash is a short order cook, and he gets an apron dirty from grease on the grill. The geek slinging data around, just has to keep his pizza from dripping.

The data, like the hash and eggs, is there. Moving it from one place to another, a simple exercise for the reader. Sorry if the analogy doesn't work for you.
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