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Old 27-03-2013, 15:54   #91
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

Having used integrated marine navigation systems I am still not ready to "buy" tablet navigation. It will do simple stuff like fixes, tracks, etc.. But when I see set and drift calculations, true wind speeds and angles, split screen radar, and MARPA I might be more open. MARPA in particular is of interest to me because I sail a lot at night with a fair amount of traffic and until all vessels are equipped with AIS, MARPA is a much better choice.

I do have charts on my smartphone and a netbook with OpenCPN and a Garmin handheld but they are used to compare with each other and with the chartplotters and charts (still my #1 choice).

As well I much prefer the night screen on a chartplotter to the netbook and handheld; the phone does not have that function.
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Old 27-03-2013, 16:03   #92
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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Norm-
You pay dearly for the charts because they are 'Crown' property and that's what they can get for them.
In the US our government charts are, like all government publications, property of the people. So everyone in the US amortizes the cost of them with our general tax funds including the farmers we pay not to grow soybeans. That makes better sense, right? Hmmmm....
Technically, under US copyright law, I think that means all the "foreigners" are not entitled to free US charts but we haven't figured out how to charge y'all for them yet. Yet.<G>
Ah ha!
Thanks for explaining it for me.
So whether we Aussies go for tablet or plotter, we still get the big sting from our Feral Garment?
Dang!
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Old 27-03-2013, 16:49   #93
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain !

{Because this "post" is the only way I know to flag a thread for added comments. Mucho good info..... My thanks to the OP et al. }
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Old 27-03-2013, 17:12   #94
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

I was checking on the PLD accuracy of the GTR, and the tablet had good SVT readings.
If we can get BLT to work, I'm sure the fleet of BT's will adapt the technology ASAP.
It is just the TLA and the FLA's that are really lacking in PMS.
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Old 27-03-2013, 17:12   #95
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

This thread is an interesting read. However, I can't help but think of how complicated technology can make us. Granted, I've only coastal cruised and chartered, but a handheld gps, binacle compass, a few charts, and a depth sounder was plenty technology. What I relied most on was my eyesight, hearing, and feel of the wind.
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Old 27-03-2013, 19:40   #96
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

Maybe this is plain obvious for many of you, but it took me some research time so I'll shoot it here, may be useful for others.

At this point I find a bit strange that nobody pointed out that modern MFDs are actually walking the tablet path. From what I see, these are just where smartphones were a few years back. Will they reinvent the wheel going small steps towards all current tablet features? Guaranteed! When the first marine MFD fitted with a GSM sim slot will hit the market, will be a blast. Why isn't one yet? Because they sell without. When visiting a trader or boat show, do you ask why the heck they didn't bother to put in a gsm modem an add an email client? Maybe you should. The youtube player will be next.

Although the main target here was the iPad, there are lots of other tablets out there, some cheaper then the waterproof case mentioned before. I would not use one as a substitute for a laptop based setup, but with a remote console over wifi you get a cheap wireless display capable of many other things, also useful onshore. I hope the chinese guy needed to put that cheap rugged case into production is already an adult.
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Old 27-03-2013, 20:12   #97
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

One thing to rule them all, One thing to find them,
One thing to bring them all and ...
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Old 27-03-2013, 23:15   #98
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Well, that's easy, Catakate. It is well documented that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west only because Lord Apollo chooses to carry it that way in his chariot. And equally well documented that the Gods sometimes do what they please, not what men expect. So if one day Apollo hauls off or sleeps in...the prudent navigator can find other means to navigate, even if the sun fails to rise and set in the expected places. Or simply if it is really badly overcast.<G>
Loved it! Got more?

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
NMEA2000 is not expensive at all; what is expensive is to have all instrument displayed on the iPad.
The bits needed to connect a few devices are not that expensive. But looking into the details...

The NMEA 2k specification itself is proprietary and expensive. NMEA 2k physical network layer is proprietary and much more expensive then Ethernet. NMEA 2k communication layer is expensive vendor binary protocol, unlike HTTP. NMEA 2k “compliant” or “works with” NMEA 2k will not be recognized as NMEA 2k products, testing and certification is expensive. And many more...

The automotive industry uses a proven technology called CAN in mostly all on and off road vehicles. That is cheap, rugged, and robust, in very harsh environments both physically and electrically. Practically the CAN transceivers add zero-cost. Some say the not-very-well-hidden purpose of NMEA is to sustain a technology cartel protecting the major marine-electronics vendors.
NMEA 2000 and the Obverse of Open Source
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Old 28-03-2013, 00:30   #99
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by decca View Post
SOG vs Water speed: This is an obsolete debate, except maybe for extreme racers....
If you have both gps, water speed (both axes side slip and forward) you can compute the ocean currents. This allows you to compare with grib data and determine what the optimal routing is. There are a lot more practical uses for water speed data.

Quote:
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decca, what on earth is the practical purpose of "requiring" the GPS in your tablet to refresh a minimum of five times per second?
There are a lot of reasons. First of all.. this means better data if you have accelerometers and gyroscopes integrated with a kalman filter or something similar. The faster update rate gives more precise estimations of true state, and helps average out noise. If the system is controlling the autopilot this results in less power consumption, faster course, better handling.

That being said, 1hz is still basically fast enough for gps anyway (one update every 30 seconds is probably enough) and I doubt the differences would be very noticable for a decent system, but if I had the choice I would get the fastest one possible as it can only help.

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For the refresh rate, I agree with estarzinger and ... to get immediate result for trimming changes, it would be nice to have 5hz or even 10hz.
Yes, but the sea state changes your speed at the swell period which is much longer than 1 second anyway. So unless your system is intelligent enough to lock onto the sea state and calculate the waves (is is extremely difficult and basically impossible to do without errors sometimes) Then you are going to have to wait a few seconds after adjusting the mainsheet anyway to determine if it helped or not if it was close to correct to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
There is no standard yet that allows you to access say a wind or depth transducer , so you'll have to buy a proprietary setup like digital yacht to transfer NMEA 2k to wifi. ( then there no integrated software and there isn't going to be any until the standard gets sorted ) you never even mentioned AIS or RADaR unto a tablet issues. Not to mention the setup and calibration issues without having a manufacturers display device.
except for nmea messages for wind speed and depth. nmea2k is being reverse engineered. Putting on wifi is pretty trivial.. a lot of projects do this already. AIS is easy these days and can be done for only $8 usb digital tv device (I can receive any vhf channel fine with mine).
Quote:
Then to my knowledge there is no autopilot integration.
Opencpn can control autopilots.
Quote:
Consumer grade electronics in cheap stuff like tablets will have much shorter lives then marine grade stuff. Just take a look at the temp specs.
You can buy about 8 of them for the price.. not that disposable is really a good solution it is tempting. Don't put it out in the sun, that will help in a lot of cases.
Quote:
Not so good in a storm off shore.
Thankfully we don't and never will need electronics anyway, so this is all really just for fun

Quote:
If you are looking at autopilot , wind , depth , radar , AIS , VHF, etc the display unit is often the cheapest .
building your own is almost always cheapest for anything, but takes more time too.
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Old 28-03-2013, 06:04   #100
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If we can get BLT to work, I'm sure the fleet of BT's will adapt the technology ASAP..
mmmmmmmmmm....BLT.....
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Old 28-03-2013, 14:48   #101
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I just wonder what is going to power all those "wireless" things transmitting over the bluetooth.
TAC TIC!
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Old 28-03-2013, 15:06   #102
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Loved it! Got more?

The bits needed to connect a few devices are not that expensive. But looking into the details...

The NMEA 2k specification itself is proprietary and expensive. NMEA 2k physical network layer is proprietary and much more expensive then Ethernet. NMEA 2k communication layer is expensive vendor binary protocol, unlike HTTP. NMEA 2k &ldquo;compliant&rdquo; or &ldquo;works with&rdquo; NMEA 2k will not be recognized as NMEA 2k products, testing and certification is expensive. And many more...

The automotive industry uses a proven technology called CAN in mostly all on and off road vehicles. That is cheap, rugged, and robust, in very harsh environments both physically and electrically. Practically the CAN transceivers add zero-cost. Some say the not-very-well-hidden purpose of NMEA is to sustain a technology cartel protecting the major marine-electronics vendors.
NMEA 2000 and the Obverse of Open Source
The so called "marine" industry seems to be locking their own cell. Slow or fast their death is already happening. This post is here because of that. There is no way to stop it. The mainstream electronics are so much logical and simple user friendly.
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Old 28-03-2013, 15:12   #103
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

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mmmmmmmmmm....BLT.....
My post was complete utter made-up nonsense. Reading many posts on CF,
the acronyms drive me crazy, drove me over the top yesterday.
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Old 28-03-2013, 15:16   #104
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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post

My post was complete utter made-up nonsense. Reading many posts on CF,
the acronyms drive me crazy, drove me over the top yesterday.
Try talking to a teenager.....it is just as bad....maybe worse.
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Old 28-03-2013, 16:11   #105
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Re: A tablet to replace it ALL: how, which one, which apps?

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My post was complete utter made-up nonsense. Reading many posts on CF,
the acronyms drive me crazy, drove me over the top yesterday.
Sorry MARPA = Mini Automatic Radar Plotting Aid

If you have never seen one, find someone with one and take a look underway. It gives both CPA and TCPA (Closest Point of Approach and Time to Closest Point of Approach) as well as relative speed and bearing.

BTW - WTF is CF?
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