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Old 13-12-2013, 10:55   #16
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Re: 2 sets of side lights..... okay, or not so much?

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
I wonder sometimes if I should go for bow lights, but then I recall that a dark foredeck is a Good Thing at night, ...
You will have a darker foredeck with bow mounted lights than with ones mounted on your pilot house esp if you have wet decks.
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Old 13-12-2013, 12:01   #17
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Re: 2 sets of side lights..... okay, or not so much?

I believe the best option is to add an either/or switch after your Running Lights breaker. That way you are always leagal. Have done it on several boats and works fine. Hate coming across boats showing both!
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Old 13-12-2013, 13:24   #18
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Originally Posted by jordiebsocal View Post
Fantastic! So I needed to install these for when we are motoring anyway. This baby can definitely motor with her 250gal of diesel tankage. there is a switch for steaming lights already on the cockpit panel to boot. I will move the leads for the new lights to this spot and use the correlative switch depending on my prefered method of propulsion. . Thanks for all of your help everyone!!
Get a 3-way switch. Up is tricolor for when sails are up, down is for anchor light when anchor is down and middle is steaming. Have a separate switch for on/off.
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Old 13-12-2013, 14:37   #19
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Re: 2 sets of side lights..... okay, or not so much?

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Get a 3-way switch. Up is tricolor for when sails are up, down is for anchor light when anchor is down and middle is steaming. Have a separate switch for on/off.
I like to have the option to sail with deck-level lights. At sea I use the tricolor when sailing. Close to shore, or in the bay I use the deck-level lights, not just when motoring -- the tricolor isn't easy to see when close-in.

I have separate breaker/switches for tricolor, deck-level running lights, steaming (white masthead), anchor, and mast-top strobe. It is possible to mis-configure these five breakers, but I try to pay attention.
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Old 13-12-2013, 16:45   #20
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Re: 2 sets of side lights..... okay, or not so much?

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
You will have a darker foredeck with bow mounted lights than with ones mounted on your pilot house esp if you have wet decks.
Normally, I'd agree, but I have a break in my deck by the pilothouse and it's strongly cambered forward to shed water. I can't say I've had problems with too much light...unless I look over my shoulder. The lights are right under an overhanging part of the pilothouse roof, and so are usually only visible from forward beyond the bow and from the sides.

But that does bring up an important point for the OP: when positioning lights, it's probably best to just rig up two 6V lantern batteries and position them at night until you find a spot that will meet the legal requirement but which won't blind the helmsman from wherever the helm is. Most people install lights in the daylight, which is no bloody good when you think about it. I recall a fellow whose lights were only vaguely visible from a bit of reflection off the pulpit chrome from the aft helm, and yet were very bright forward and to the sides. That's where I learned the trick of installing nav lights at night and after a test run.
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Old 13-12-2013, 16:59   #21
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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post

The terminology here, while correct as per COLREGS, is going to be confusing for many Americans and, no doubt, some Canadians. The white, 225 d. light you describe as "masthead" is called "the steaming light" here, and is used to indicate a vessel (in this case sail) under auxiliary power. British terms use "masthead" to mean the front of the mast, whereas on this side, "masthead" means "the top of the mast", where the trilight and the anchor light glow, the place you call "the mast top".

Confusing, no?
Yeah, I always try to avoid the term "masthead light". Confuses many.
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Old 13-12-2013, 17:03   #22
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Re: 2 sets of side lights..... okay, or not so much?

I can only think it was done to standardise the language in the regs... stern light, sidelights, masthead lights. Maybe someone was concerned that few ships were steamers any more....
Silly really as rarely at the masthead, more likely to be at or near the cross trees on 'ships' big and small, and often not on a mast at all.
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Old 13-12-2013, 18:01   #23
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Ok, so please allow me to clarify, summarise my understanding and "dumb it down" a bit (for my own benefit!). I assume Colregs for sail vessels are internationally standardised, although it seems there are local interpretations and variations depending on size of vessel.

I bought a Dutch registered English made 33' yacht, it doesn't as I understand have current spec lights, especially for Australian waters.

There is no anchor light at "top of mast" only a steaming forward facing "deck light" at speaker level. When on anchor I use this, though I know not legal I'd rather someone see me than collide.

My Tri-colour is at "near top of mast" (NSW regs state "near top" for Tri-colour is legal) and is not blocked in any way by sails. There was a deck level stern light that I'm about to replace blown bulb, though understand this is only required in vessels over 20 metres (65.6') (or 12 metres (39.4') depending on which Colregs interpretation). There are no deck level port/starboard lights, but my understanding of Australian requirements for vessels under 12 metres is that so long as Tri-colour is visible at night when sailing or a sail vessel under power, this is legal. From the South Australian interpretation of Colregs:

http://www.sa.gov.au/subject/Transpo...igation+lights

This clearly differentiates power vessel and power driven sail vessel requirements. To add further confusion, Victoria differentiates between over/ under 20 metre (65.6') vessels:

http://www.transportsafety.vic.gov.a...igation-lights

Is it any wonder we're all confused, even different states in the one country make different interpretation of Colregs!

Am I correct, especially in my local/international interpretations?
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Old 13-12-2013, 18:31   #24
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Re: 2 Sets of Side Lights..... Okay, or not so Much?

Tri-light over your steaming light is illegal in all jurisdictions... you are required to show your steaming light above your red/green. Easy fix.... just buy a bi-colour red/green and stick it on your pulpit.
Re the anchor light... it should be all round which your steaming light isn't... another easy fix... buy an anchor light and hang it in the foretriangle or whever else you think is suitable...low down is better..... job done.

The local regs aren't that confusing... bit simplistic though.... there is no such thing as a power driven sailing vessel ( not at night anyway.. lets not go there ... nobody else in Australia does) you are either sailing or motoring.

Also at night if you want to be seen turn on as many white lights as you wish... and just stick to the international regs ... your life will be simpler.
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Old 13-12-2013, 20:37   #25
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Re: 2 sets of side lights..... okay, or not so much?

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
I can only think it was done to standardise the language in the regs... stern light, sidelights, masthead lights. Maybe someone was concerned that few ships were steamers any more....
Silly really as rarely at the masthead, more likely to be at or near the cross trees on 'ships' big and small, and often not on a mast at all.
Well, exactly. On a sailing vessel, it's strictly speaking the "motoring light", even if you are motorsailing or otherwise appear to be sailing.

Which brings up another wrinkle: If I'm motorsailing at night, I switch off the trilight at the mast top, switch on the running lights at deck level and switch on the steaming light. I do not wish to give the impression that I am constrained beyond not wishing to luff my sails. That would be unfair, although I've seen people motorsailing in restricted waters with a token sail set and "sailing lights" on and no steaming light, probably to get the power boats to veer off.
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Old 13-12-2013, 20:41   #26
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Re: 2 Sets of Side Lights..... Okay, or not so Much?

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Tri-light over your steaming light is illegal in all jurisdictions... you are required to show your steaming light above your red/green. Easy fix.... just buy a bi-colour red/green and stick it on your pulpit.
Re the anchor light... it should be all round which your steaming light isn't... another easy fix... buy an anchor light and hang it in the foretriangle or whever else you think is suitable...low down is better..... job done.

The local regs aren't that confusing... bit simplistic though.... there is no such thing as a power driven sailing vessel ( not at night anyway.. lets not go there ... nobody else in Australia does) you are either sailing or motoring.

Also at night if you want to be seen turn on as many white lights as you wish... and just stick to the international regs ... your life will be simpler.
I concur that you don't need a mast-top anchor light, but it should be hoisted well clear of the deck and have the correct brightness to be considered OK.

The COLREGS are the same everywhere...some of the buoyage varies...but the terminology used by sailors is different in some places. I understand "larboard" instead of "port" is still in use, but rarely.
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Old 13-12-2013, 21:23   #27
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Re: 2 Sets of Side Lights..... Okay, or not so Much?

I didn't mean *that* low down
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Old 13-12-2013, 21:35   #28
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Re: 2 Sets of Side Lights..... Okay, or not so Much?

Got confused ... don't like being confused ...

I don't think it does matter for nav lights if a sailboat is under sail power or motoring, or both. Either nav light schema, 25a or 25b but not both at the same time, is equally valid for a sailboat under any kind of power. There is also a third option, 25c, that is similar to 25b but mutually exclusive, and perhaps it contributed to the confusion.

The only difference is a day shape, 25e, for a sailboat under sail and power.

Ref: 72 COLREGS RULE 25 USCG DOCUMENT (PDF)
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Old 13-12-2013, 22:16   #29
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Re: 2 Sets of Side Lights..... Okay, or not so Much?

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Got confused ... don't like being confused ...

I don't think it does matter for nav lights if a sailboat is under sail power or motoring, or both. Either nav light schema, 25a or 25b but not both at the same time, is equally valid for a sailboat under any kind of power. There is also a third option, 25c, that is similar to 25b but mutually exclusive, and perhaps it contributed to the confusion.

The only difference is a day shape, 25e, for a sailboat under sail and power.

Ref: 72 COLREGS RULE 25 USCG DOCUMENT (PDF)
Rule 3c : 'The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.'

Navigation Rules Online

Rule 3b: 'The term "power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.'
So a sailboat with any motor on and engaged in drive is considered a power-driven vessel and is obligated to used power vessel lights and is prohibited from using 'sailing vessel' lights.
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Old 13-12-2013, 22:21   #30
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Re: 2 Sets of Side Lights..... Okay, or not so Much?

Jordie, where in socal are you?
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