Yep - we dragged!

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Yes, and I have one of each. I don’t consider the spade a great mud anchor due to the low weight to surface area. Ether in gravel and rock.

But also I like a LOT of weight. Weight improves just about everything in anchoring except you back. If I lost the windlass I would switch to the 66# Spade or FX-37 I carry on the stern.

We've had excellent performance from our Spade. It's been fine in mud except when it is soupy mud.

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by Agarnaut

Dragging Anchor....The best advise is to upgrade to the heaviest gear you can handle safely. 4 anchors..Working Anchor for the bow,Stern Anchor..BIG STORM ANCHOR..and Sea Anchor.
Chain chain chain...As much as you can let out the better.
Anchor w/ 2 bow anchors port/stb and a stern anchor
A very good GPS/Sonar is a good investment..Forward side scanning.
Hand held GPS dedicated to tracking anchor swing.
A hand held bearing compass to fix on landmarks to track dragging.
UUmmm. Convert to HD Drum Reel if you have the room up forward.

Anchor watch for other boats dragging into you..

When in doubt let more out..

Good luck

Thank you, I've been wondering why there was no discussion or opinions on a second anchor on the stern instead of 2 on the bow or in addition to....but then I'm a newby with zero experience....

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

Thank you, I've been wondering why there was no discussion or opinions on a second anchor on the stern instead of 2 on the bow or in addition to....but then I'm a newby with zero experience....

When that wind clocks 180* it doesn't just stop blowing one direction and start in another. It often clocks partially, you end up with a period of time with the wind at 90*. Wind on the beam.with a bow and stern anchor can end up blowing one or both anchors free.

[Steve Bedford]

It is important to note that the following factors are important when anchoring in very soft mud/ooze, regardless of brand:
1. Anchor is in the correct postion it orientation to dig deep into the seabed to reach more solid substrates.
2. The fluke is as large as possible to maximize resistance against the seabed.
3. The heavier the better (to a certain point) to maximize deep seabed penetration and, the heavier the anchor, typically the larger the fluke area for resistance.
4. The fluke to shank angle is more open than what would be typical for sand and hard seabeds. These harder the seabed, the more the anchor fluke has to more sharply “cut” into the substrate than in ooze.
5. Longer rode length that would allow for a minimum of 10:1.

Steve

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Steve Bedford

It is important to note that the following factors are important when anchoring in very soft mud/ooze, regardless of brand:
1. Anchor is in the correct postion it orientation to dig deep into the seabed to reach more solid substrates.
2. The fluke is as large as possible to maximize resistance against the seabed.
3. The heavier the better (to a certain point) to maximize deep seabed penetration and, the heavier the anchor, typically the larger the fluke area for resistance.
4. The fluke to shank angle is more open than what would be typical for sand and hard seabeds. These harder the seabed, the more the anchor fluke has to more sharply “cut” into the substrate than in ooze.
5. Longer rode length that would allow for a minimum of 10:1.

Steve

Light weight aluminum Fortress anchors do very well in mud ooze.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

Thank you, I've been wondering why there was no discussion or opinions on a second anchor on the stern instead of 2 on the bow or in addition to....but then I'm a newby with zero experience....

I’m always anchored bow and stern and occasionally it will shift to 90 degrees. I get up, move the stern line (nylon) up to the bow, the boat faces the wind, I go back to bed. But for the situation described here I’d go through the hassle of a Bahamian moor with 2 danforth, but I’m a bit old school.

[Mike Banks]

About the most useless piece of kit one could have aboard a vessel--and potentially one of the most dangerous, is the aluminium Danforth type of anchor.

They fail at the least provocation, the shafts bend easily and release the anchor even if it does manage to set, and they ought to have been banned the moment they first appeared. I would not have one aboard for any reason--just something to take up valuable space and giving a newbie a false sense of security.

I would not use an aluminium anchor of ANY design.

[NevisDog]

I think there is a world of difference between a 'branded' Fortress made from aircraft aluminium and any unbranded aluminium anchor. Fortress have plenty of evidence to back their claims of having the best mud anchor (provided the pull isn't allowed to veer to one side - so it's purely a secondary or kedge anchor IMO).

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

About the most useless piece of kit one could have aboard a vessel--and potentially one of the most dangerous, is the aluminium Danforth type of anchor.

They fail at the least provocation, the shafts bend easily and release the anchor even if it does manage to set, and they ought to have been banned the moment they first appeared. I would not have one aboard for any reason--just something to take up valuable space and giving a newbie a false sense of security.

I would not use an aluminium anchor of ANY design.

What brand aluminum anchor have you used and seen these results?
Have you ever seen the large Fortress's on some US CG boats?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

About the most useless piece of kit one could have aboard a vessel--and potentially one of the most dangerous, is the aluminium Danforth type of anchor.

They fail at the least provocation, the shafts bend easily and release the anchor even if it does manage to set, and they ought to have been banned the moment they first appeared. I would not have one aboard for any reason--just something to take up valuable space and giving a newbie a false sense of security.

I would not use an aluminium anchor of ANY design.

When making inflammatory statements like this, providing some documentation lends credibility. Without such, it is just more internet BS.

And when there is heaps of contradictory data available, the posters of such statements appear quite ridiculous.

Jim

[Steve Bedford]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Light weight aluminum Fortress anchors do very well in mud ooze.

Absolutely correct. Without a doubt, an authentic Fortress is a great anchor in muddy conditions. As long as the shank is kept up at an angle, the very large flukes on the aluminum Fortress can provide deep penetration and excellent holding. If the shank is not raised off the seabed floor, especially if connected to chain, the fluke and chain can sink into the seabed rather quickly, closing the angle of the fluke/shank. Operators who understand and master that setting technique find excellent holding.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yeah i was kinda joking in that one, the few times I’ve gone diving in mud I had 0 visibility as soon as I hit the bottom... maybe sonograms of anchors (not) setting? Where’s Noelex and Panope when ya need em?

For testing, how about a solid state "attitude indicator" that records orientation every couple seconds. A cheap cell phone has everything needed. Just have to keep it dry and prevent crushing.

I'm sure the right person could write a simple app in no time.

Steve

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Panope

For testing, how about a solid state "attitude indicator" that records orientation every couple seconds. A cheap cell phone has everything needed. Just have to keep it dry and prevent crushing.



I'm sure the right person could write a simple app in no time.



Steve

I’ll do it!!! I’d love to work on some mechanism for instrumenting anchors.

[a64pilot]

Of course not all debis on the bottom inhibits anchoring.
When we first dropped we were in mud and drug a little on backing down, then the anchor suddenly “bit” next morning I found out why
That is a 40 kg Rocna, so that cable is bigger than it looks at first.
If so hadn’t oversized my windlass, I don’t think I would have gotten it up

[NevisDog]

Ya not supposed to anchor where cables are laid! (Okay just kiddin - nice windlass.)