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Old 21-10-2018, 14:25   #166
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuW View Post

It may be an old-fashioned virtue to be patient and cautious, but...we're still here!
Agreed!
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Old 21-10-2018, 15:46   #167
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

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It may be an old-fashioned virtue to be patient and cautious, but...we're still here!
An extra 10 minutes or however long it takes setting your anchor is a prudent investment in happiness. Better to be patient and sleep well than to be hasty and awakened by anything to do with a dragging anchor.
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Old 21-10-2018, 20:21   #168
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

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Many of the creeks in Md. have no bottom, the water just get thicker as you go deeper!
Not a lot that can be don unless you have a crazy heavy anchor.
LOL! That's exactly what I used to tell folks who sidled up next to me 25yrs ago down there! There's mud and then there's MD gunk! What felt like solid holding to you was until conditions overwhelmed the depth your anchor was in the gunk. Your rode maxed out and the weather caused a shorter scope effect imo.

If it's any consolation we just had that same weather all day in central eastern nj! Blew the trees clean of leaves! So much for fall color lol!
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Old 22-10-2018, 03:08   #169
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

Haven't dragged yet. The time will come!! Anchorages are mostly shallow in this part of the world, and tidal, so length of rode out is determined by available swing radius. I have 100 mts rode, 35 of it chain, rest nylon cable. Always let as much out as swing room allows. No sense keeping the stuff in the locker. Have next-size-up anchors for length of boat, Rocna on the bow, fortress in a locker. Twice i had to ride storms at anchor. Then, I set the fortress as a secondary anchor, on 20 mts chain shackled to the end of the primary chain, about 30 deg angle from primary anchor.

I don't know if this is best practice, or even particularly effective. Just what I do. As said, have not dragged yet, and if did, didn't notice.
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Old 22-10-2018, 05:54   #170
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

We drug 3 times in 8 months, all were because of foul bottoms. 1st time, fishing net. 2nd time, was thin mud over limestone (every time the wind picked up we dragged). 3rd time was carpet. We have a Rocna 33kg on a 16 ton boat. Other than that we were OK, even through tornado warnings in St Augustine and 60 knot winds.
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Old 11-02-2019, 22:42   #171
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

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YES! I never dived on an anchor but I have Delta memories. The #$%^& things seemed to set but over time as monitored with my GPS you could see almost see the path they plowed. I started with a 55# ......it plowed so I thought a larger one was the answer and purchased/installed an 88#. It did the same thing as the smaller 55#. In each situation, the anchors were attached to my 5/16HT all chain rode.

No love for a Delta here!

The only times I have dragged is with Delta and CQR. I have had Bruce copies and they set hard and I pull them hard with the engine in reverse until they do not move.
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Old 12-02-2019, 00:41   #172
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

I really fail to see why in holy heck anyone ever, anywhere, is hanging off a plow or cqr these days.... if you can't afford a decent anchor, you can't afford to cruise, period. I struggle for analogies, normally something I'm great at: It's like driving your new, much faster car with tires and brake systems from the twenties (and sliding off that curve in the rain into someone else); it's when you get sick and pull out 10 year expired antibiotics because it's what you have and always used (and building up resistant bugs to get others sicker); it's like sending your kid off to school with textbooks from the 80s cause pluto was a planet back then so it must be the right answer on the test today (and developing some stupid-ass children I gotta live amongst).... gahhhh i can't do it! Don't upgrade your anchor for yourself, I don't care if your home gets wrecked in a storm cause you didn't finagle your plow on the fifth try just exactly so... but just damn sure don't park upwind and take me out with your stupidity pleeeaase

(rant mode off, coffee taking effect, mmmmmm coffeeeee)

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Old 12-02-2019, 02:29   #173
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

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Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
I really fail to see why in holy heck anyone ever, anywhere, is hanging off a plow or cqr these days.... if you can't afford a decent anchor, you can't afford to cruise, period. I struggle for analogies, normally something I'm great at: It's like driving your new, much faster car with tires and brake systems from the twenties (and sliding off that curve in the rain into someone else); it's when you get sick and pull out 10 year expired antibiotics because it's what you have and always used (and building up resistant bugs to get others sicker); it's like sending your kid off to school with textbooks from the 80s cause pluto was a planet back then so it must be the right answer on the test today (and developing some stupid-ass children I gotta live amongst).... gahhhh i can't do it! Don't upgrade your anchor for yourself, I don't care if your home gets wrecked in a storm cause you didn't finagle your plow on the fifth try just exactly so... but just damn sure don't park upwind and take me out with your stupidity pleeeaase

(rant mode off, coffee taking effect, mmmmmm coffeeeee)

I'm not a big fan of plow anchors, but I used one for years and anchored hundreds of times. Sometimes hard to get stuck in, but once in, it held OK.

Point is, thousands of boats anchored hundreds of thousands of times on plows and didn't drag. Your blanket condemnation is a bit too much for my taste, and there are plenty of folks still successfully cruising with CQRs and their brethren.

I moved on years ago, and found a Bruce to be more forgiving and then a Manson Supreme to be better yet. But to get into a swivet if someone anchors up ahead of you on a CQR is silly. I worry far more about their competence than the type of anchor they choose.

So, now my rant mode is off and I hope the coffee was good!

Jim
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:59   #174
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

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I'm not a big fan of plow anchors, but I used one for years and anchored hundreds of times. Sometimes hard to get stuck in, but once in, it held OK.

Jim
Haha yes, but my point (and poor analogies) I think still stand: using yesterday's old technology and logic that once was as good as we could do today, when there are a number of options that are indisputably better/safer, is irresponsible in my view when it comes to anchors. Cheap out on your rigging, or antifoul, or quality of libations aboard and no one gets hurt but you. Cheap out on your anchor, and yes, people who are not on your boat can have their day thoroughly ruined through no fault of their own.

Also, let me add sincerely you're one of my very favorite posters on here! Such a wealth of knowledge... I really should listen to you. But on this, I'm not gonna I very much hope our paths cross one day, and when they do, I'll be hanging of a giant rocna so you can sleep easy

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Old 12-02-2019, 05:59   #175
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

Gotta agree that the anchor is the last place anyone should go cheap. For less than $500, and much less for smaller boats, you can hang off of a new gen like a Mantus and keep yourself and others much safer.

I found my old bruce to be the best of the old gen anchors- always set and reset. But dragged slowly in high winds in thinner sand or mud
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Old 12-02-2019, 07:11   #176
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

I really disagree with the prices of the new gen anchors .
Yes if I can buy a delta or a new gen for the same price and always under 200 I would choose the new gen .
But rocna and Manus are overpriced by far , and the companies are getting advantage of the fear of new bloomers to make over 500% of profit .

Thankfully there are cheaper new gen anchors at least in Europe that budget sailors can afford .

I have a 12 kg delta plus 8 mm chain and never dragged , I was anchored in bijagos with 25 knots of wind and 4 to 6 knots of tidal current (I know because that was the speed the boat moved over ground without wind and no motor the previous day's .) On flat rock bottom and the anchor didn't drag and had a full change of direction every 6 hours but I have proper sized gear and almost no windage .

Your boats windage is as important as your anchoring gear and people tempt to forget that .
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Old 12-02-2019, 07:45   #177
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I'm not a big fan of plow anchors, but I used one for years and anchored hundreds of times. Sometimes hard to get stuck in, but once in, it held OK.



Point is, thousands of boats anchored hundreds of thousands of times on plows and didn't drag. Your blanket condemnation is a bit too much for my taste, and there are plenty of folks still successfully cruising with CQRs and their brethren.



I moved on years ago, and found a Bruce to be more forgiving and then a Manson Supreme to be better yet. But to get into a swivet if someone anchors up ahead of you on a CQR is silly. I worry far more about their competence than the type of anchor they choose.



So, now my rant mode is off and I hope the coffee was good!



Jim


Jim that’s a bit like saying you drove a car without seatbelts for years without incident and plenty of people still do without incident.

I’m not going to judge anyone for their choice of anchor, although it does potentially impact me (literally). It would be like tilting at windmills.

But it’s just a fact that spending $500-1000 on a properly sized new generation anchor is just about the best investment, value and function wise, that you can make for your boat. I reserve my right to remain dumbfounded that anyone would not upgrade because the cost is “too high”. And those cruising on a shoestring budget, for whom the price is dear, are particularly vulnerable as the cost of a dragging incident can be ruinous.
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:11   #178
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

Rocna 44#. $460
Mantus 45# $420
Manson Supreme 35# $360

That’s about $10/pound. To say there is a 500% markup would mean they should go for about $2/pound?

Sure they cost more than a Bruce but they are more complicated to manufacture having multiple parts which require fabrication, bending, shaping and welding and some have both steel and lead.

And also, because they are new products they had to be introduced to the boating community and that community had to be educated as to their advantages. All of this took capital and risk. So yes there is some payback on the initial investment, not all of which wa engineering.

Doesn’t sound like a rip off to me.
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:15   #179
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

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Jim that’s a bit like saying you drove a car without seatbelts for years without incident and plenty of people still do without incident.

I’m not going to judge anyone for their choice of anchor, although it does potentially impact me (literally). It would be like tilting at windmills.

But it’s just a fact that spending $500-1000 on a properly sized new generation anchor is just about the best investment, value and function wise, that you can make for your boat. I reserve my right to remain dumbfounded that anyone would not upgrade because the cost is “too high”. And those cruising on a shoestring budget, for whom the price is dear, are particularly vulnerable as the cost of a dragging incident can be ruinous.
That's the mindset that new company's making profit on .

You can spent far less and be safe as far as you calculate properly .
If I can spend 300 on my anchor with an old generation and 500 on my rigging or other issues I prefer that than spending 500 to 1000 only for a new generation anchor that is gonna be cheap in 5 years or ten from now , and is literally a piece of iron you buy for gold .

Yes there are dangerous budget sailors that they can't afford basic safety but there are other sailors that are just on a budget .

Chandler's prices reflect how bad this mindset is .
Boat prices reflect that ..... Marina prices the same ... Mooring prices as well they all feed on the need of security .

Sailing is a cheap sport but here we are making it expensive .
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:37   #180
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Re: Yep - we dragged!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
I really fail to see why in holy heck anyone ever, anywhere, is hanging off a plow or cqr these days.... if you can't afford a decent anchor, you can't afford to cruise, period. I struggle for analogies, normally something I'm great at: It's like driving your new, much faster car with tires and brake systems from the twenties (and sliding off that curve in the rain into someone else); it's when you get sick and pull out 10 year expired antibiotics because it's what you have and always used (and building up resistant bugs to get others sicker); it's like sending your kid off to school with textbooks from the 80s cause pluto was a planet back then so it must be the right answer on the test today (and developing some stupid-ass children I gotta live amongst).... gahhhh i can't do it! Don't upgrade your anchor for yourself, I don't care if your home gets wrecked in a storm cause you didn't finagle your plow on the fifth try just exactly so... but just damn sure don't park upwind and take me out with your stupidity pleeeaase

(rant mode off, coffee taking effect, mmmmmm coffeeeee)

I know exactly who you're talking about and feel the same way. He only carries enough anchor string to reach the bottom at low tide also. Always shows up with no food or water with a leaking boat for a three day cruise. And yes, he reads this forum.

I'm going for coffee.
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