Would YOU buy this boat?

[rgleason]

Or could be, he was just asking a question.

Yes, I now think he was asking a question. So I tried to answer.

[Suijin]

Just to be clear, I was not implying that all surveyors in the US are mechanics, nor that your usual survey included a full engine survey. Rather, if the boat is sea trialed as part of the general survey some inspection of the engine's condition/operation will be included.

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Dammit this boat has almost zero value IMO! Why are we still discussing it? Just because it looks pretty?

We're discussing it because your opinion is not held by everyone. You seem rather amazed and annoyed by that fact. Lighten up.

[DenverSailors]

Originally Posted by Flod

This probably won’t help but here in Europe the prices and market for this kind of boats have just went down and down the last few years. Nobody wants old sailboats anymore. You practically have to give them away. This kind of boat you would get for nothing around here. Only chance to get anywhere near that asking price would be if it had a new engine and so on. That said, it looks great and if you like the boat and can afford it and also like to do some DIY repairs then why not go ahead? The survey itself is not a no go in my opinion.

Is there a site you recommend for finding these boats? There don’t appear to be many listed in our price range on Yachworld. Thank you!

[malbert73]

Yachtworld has a major flaw in that it’s only boats listed by brokers. So price has to be more than really low for it to be worth a broker to list. I’d look at Craigslist, sailboat listings . Com, grabbagsailboats.com, etc for low priced sailboats. Often you also have to wander around local boatyards in summer. Boats sitting out of water in summer probably are just waiting for an offer...

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Yachtworld has a major flaw in that it’s only boats listed by brokers. So price has to be more than really low for it to be worth a broker to list. I’d look at Craigslist, sailboat listings . Com, grabbagsailboats.com, etc for low priced sailboats. Often you also have to wander around local boatyards in summer. Boats sitting out of water in summer probably are just waiting for an offer...

That's not a flaw, it's business model. YW is paid for by the brokers and they like any other business must make a profit.

The brokers time, business taxes, YW fees, CPYB fees, accounting fees, office staff, office rental, travel expenses and a host of other things I've missed .... can't be paid for on the commission from 10k boats.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

That's not a flaw, it's business model. YW is paid for by the brokers and they like any other business must make a profit.



The brokers time, business taxes, YW fees, CPYB fees, accounting fees, office staff, office rental, travel expenses and a host of other things I've missed .... can't be paid for on the commission from 10k boats.

I know, I agree completely. You made my point more clearly than I. When I’m looking for boats I am glad the site is not cluttered with a bunch of free derelicts.

I meant a flaw for OP who is asking where to find cheap boats.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

That's not a flaw, it's business model. YW is paid for by the brokers and they like any other business must make a profit.

The brokers time, business taxes, YW fees, CPYB fees, accounting fees, office staff, office rental, travel expenses and a host of other things I've missed .... can't be paid for on the commission from 10k boats.

From POV of the buyer it is a flaw. And a major one at that.

Agree with prev. poster re: looking on c-list, sailboatlistings, etc.

My pet anecdote re: YW. After I outgrew my first boat, a 27 footer, I decided to go up a size to 30-33. One of the boats I found on YW was Ericsson 32 listed for $19.9K. By the time I got to see it the owner dropped the price to 10K (not reflected on YW which still had it for 19K). I was hesitant to make a firm offer as the seller was about to leave on a several months trip (not on that boat). So we agreed to get back to negotiations after his return. A few months later I forgot about it and when I remembered and called the guy he mentioned that he misplaced my number and as he had no other offers he donated the boat to a charity. So much for the usefulness of YW listings.

Ever since that non-buy (and with other experiences in mind) I have absolutely no hesitation whatsoever to offer whatever I feel the boat is worth to me, regardless of the asking price or the sellers "hurt feelings". One never knows.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by malbert73

I know, I agree completely. You made my point more clearly than I. When I’m looking for boats I am glad the site is not cluttered with a bunch of free derelicts.

I meant a flaw for OP who is asking where to find cheap boats.

By derelicts you mean not able to cross the oceans or do a RTW? Or will sink when launched? Because most of the boats I've seen listed under $10K would be OK for local day sails or weekend coastal sailing. And most were just in need of a good scrub and may be a few through hulls replaced and sails patched here and there. And some basic engine tinkering. One is always surprised at how cosmetics drive the price (either up or down).

My best story related to how a little defect determines the price is of a buddy who was once going through yard sales in our neighborhood. Comes to one and sees a then recent model LED large screen TV with a "free" sign taped to the screen. As this was after 12 noon he was wandering what was up with the fact that no one took it yet. The house owner was saying "oh, it is not working so people are reluctant to take it home, etc". My friend looked at it thoroughly, put it in his SUV and drove it home. He tells me as he was looking it over he noticed that the electric cord looked chewed up at one place. Like a dog or a cat chew. Wired it together, taped it up and had a $1,000+ (at then prices) TV working in 5 minutes.

[NevisDog]

Well, maybe it's just me but when I look at boats, I'm really more interested in the seller - is he being totally honest with me or is he trying to hide something? I expect an owner to front up with information like a collision repair before I ask for a survey. I expect him to price the boat for the condition she is really in, not the condition he hopes I'll think it is in. If he asks 30k for a boat that needs considerable time and effort to restore to reasonable condition before it is worth that much then he is simply misleading me. If no maintenance has been done for years (seacocks corroded/seized, etc, etc) and he is asking a price I'd pay for a well-maintained example of the breed then he is simply misleading me. As soon as I catch the tiniest whiff of 'dishonesty' (or lack of up-front, open, information sharing), as soon as I get a whiff of information held back - I walk. Whether it's the broker or the owner, I walk. I only do business with people who are prepared to tell it as it is. If they are looking for a mug to come along and are asking a price only a mug will pay then I'd rather do business with someone else.

The most important part of the deal for me is the honesty and integrity of the seller. There are plenty of honest folks out there, even a few honest brokers I've found - why waste time with someone who is clearly looking for a mug to come along?

[picklesandjesse]

Originally Posted by DenverSailors

Is there a site you recommend for finding these boats? There don’t appear to be many listed in our price range on Yachworld. Thank you!

When we listed our Contessa for sale in The Netherlands we used Marktplaats NL. If you google that you will come up with Watersporten en Boten and that's what you need. On the site you can translate somewhere but I've forgotten how to now. Dutch can list there boats for a month here and then renew. Some boats like ours seem to sell for way less than the asking price. No one seems to want an older boat anymore there. Good luck.

[kmacdonald]

I think the selling price of older boats reflects their true value more now than they once did.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Well, maybe it's just me but when I look at boats, I'm really more interested in the seller - is he being totally honest with me or is he trying to hide something? I expect an owner to front up with information like a collision repair before I ask for a survey. I expect him to price the boat for the condition she is really in, not the condition he hopes I'll think it is in. If he asks 30k for a boat that needs considerable time and effort to restore to reasonable condition before it is worth that much then he is simply misleading me. If no maintenance has been done for years (seacocks corroded/seized, etc, etc) and he is asking a price I'd pay for a well-maintained example of the breed then he is simply misleading me. As soon as I catch the tiniest whiff of 'dishonesty' (or lack of up-front, open, information sharing), as soon as I get a whiff of information held back - I walk. Whether it's the broker or the owner, I walk. I only do business with people who are prepared to tell it as it is. If they are looking for a mug to come along and are asking a price only a mug will pay then I'd rather do business with someone else.

The most important part of the deal for me is the honesty and integrity of the seller. There are plenty of honest folks out there, even a few honest brokers I've found - why waste time with someone who is clearly looking for a mug to come along?

Totally agree. And that's how I sold 3 of the 5 boats I owned. 4th was traded in in lieu of the yard storage bill. And 5th (actually 2nd of the 5) I still own. No bs, no run around, I told them "it is what it is" and priced the boats accordingly and even somewhat below the market so as not to be stuck with them for another storage season. Everyone walked away happy with the deal. No boat took more than a month to sell. Compare that to months and years languishing on the market.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by DenverSailors

Is there a site you recommend for finding these boats?...

SailboatListings.com - I think they are all/mainly private listings. Choose whatever part of the world you want to look at.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by DenverSailors

Is there a site you recommend for finding these boats? There don’t appear to be many listed in our price range on Yachworld. Thank you!

I see that you are in Florida so if you spend a few weekends driving up and down within say 100 miles of where you are visiting local marinas and boatyards I'm sure you will stumble upon more potential candidates than are ever listed online.

Years ago a friend was delivering a boat from NYC to Maine. After he disembarked in the middle of nowhere he started chatting with a local marina old salt. Told him he was looking for his next boat as his then current one was already under the agreement. He was directed to a nearby boatyard where he found his current boat for well under $10K, a 46 IOR one off former racer from a very well known designer, that yard wanted gone for a fraction of the storage bill. Sure it needed sails, engine and what not. But during refit to make her a liveaboard he sold huge coffee grinders winches, huge wheel, hydraulic rigging and what have you for probably half of the purchase price. Marinized a 75hp Yanmar which he got brand new on sale from some farm equipment dealer in NC, re-cut some used sails he had in storage from a previously owned 51 footer and he was ready to go.

And all of this just from a chance conversation with an old salt at the local marina in the boonies.

[DenverSailors]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I see that you are in Florida so if you spend a few weekends driving up and down within say 100 miles of where you are visiting local marinas and boatyards I'm sure you will stumble upon more potential candidates than are ever listed online.



Years ago a friend was delivering a boat from NYC to Maine. After he disembarked in the middle of nowhere he started chatting with a local marina old salt. Told him he was looking for his next boat as his then current one was already under the agreement. He was directed to a nearby boatyard where he found his current boat for well under $10K, a 46 IOR one off former racer from a very well known designer, that yard wanted gone for a fraction of the storage bill. Sure it needed sails, engine and what not. But during refit to make her a liveaboard he sold huge coffee grinders winches, huge wheel, hydraulic rigging and what have you for probably half of the purchase price. Marinized a 75hp Yanmar which he got brand new on sale from some farm equipment dealer in NC, re-cut some used sails he had in storage from a previously owned 51 footer and he was ready to go.



And all of this just from a chance conversation with an old salt at the local marina in the boonies.

Thank you. Sadly (well, not really), we spend most of our time in Denver and the docks here are lacking in bluewater cruisers (Ha!). I do, however, love walking the docks so we will keep hoping to stumble into a deal like your friend.

Avez bonne de la chance!