Would YOU buy this boat?

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

No easy answers, but notes above. It looks to me like there is an easy $10k of work there as a SWAG.

It could be $10k of work just on the engine alone! We need to know more specifics about the boat...make/model/size/year.

[JC Reefer]

#5 Concerns me. Sounds extensive.

[DenverSailors]

Thank you for the quick and clear responses!

She is a 1982 Morgan 383 located in Rock Hall, MD, and is/was listed on Yacht World for $38,000. We looked at several 382s and 383s and felt this was a solid boat from our limited visual inspection.

The Perkins 4-108 does not “look” neglected but I’m assuming replacing a leaking gasket is labor intensive just to get access.

Overall the Boat just looks like she’s been “lonely” (ready to go but forgotten after the owner bought a bigger one).

According to a review, “The topsides and the deck were cored with synthetic foam at a time when balsa and plywood were the norm." The decks did not feel spongy or soft, but were reported as having elevated moisture.

There is a note about a previous hull repair that had elevated moisture around it, too.

I guess my options remain walk or ask for a significant reduction in price (we are under contract at $32,500). Thoughts?

[Cheechako]

I dont see anything that would necessarily scare me away. Any old boat is likely to have a lot of those same issues. I havent seen one yet that didnt show some areas of moisture in a cored deck.
How much of a DIY'er are you? If not, any old boat may not be good for you.
-My main "walk away" issue would be if it has a cored hull with the notes you provided. ( I dont think the Morgan's had a cored hull did they?)
-The rocker cover leak is nothing. Any tiny seep looks bad on those. It may even just need tightening.
-One way to do this deal would be to specify that the owner have certain "unevaluated" things fixed before closing. I would do that with the injector pump leak. That put's it in his hands.
-stuffing boxes all drip, that stuff is TBD.
-I worry more about things like tanks, sails, blisters etc which are bigger $ yet.
-Other things you might try just discounting on.

[AJ_n_Audrey]

I agree with DenverSailors on 4. On 5 - look very closely and get lots of moisture readings - that could be a $5K repair. How many hours on the engine? Perkins 4-108 is a good engine, but not if it's at the end of it's life.

[Hoodsail]

I do not have a feel for Morgans, but given she is a 1982 with a bit of deferred maintenance/upkeep, as noted earlier not uncommon that work is required. I would have the surveyor or yard mgr give you an estimate of the cost of the work needed and use that as a negotiating tool to bring the purchase price down further. Most likely will be a compromise between the seller saying that "fix" isn't important and you saying it is, with final decision being yours regarding what you pay to have repaired and what you do yourself. I did this in buying my current boat, as a port side stanchion penetrated the deck....seller's credit was $1000 more than the cost of repair.
good luck, and as mentioned before, work to keep your emotions out of it.
Dave

[buzzstar]

There is noting that is automatically disqualifying, BUT.... You and your spouse, with help via the forum if you decide to share additional information, need to compare price rough value with the estimated cost of repairs. The actual costs for the latter will almost certainly be greater than the estimates. Is the deal that good/within your budget, and your desire for this boat sufficient to tolerate the hassles of repairs and yard delays? Only you and your spouse can know. Best of luck. It is an adventure no matter what.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by DenverSailors

Thank you for the quick and clear responses!

She is a 1982 Morgan 383 located in Rock Hall, MD, and is/was listed on Yacht World for $38,000. We looked at several 382s and 383s and felt this was a solid boat from our limited visual

I guess my options remain walk or ask for a significant reduction in price (we are under contract at $32,500). Thoughts?

After you put in AT LEAST $10K-20K worth of parts/labor it still will be a $30K boat. You contract price sounds way too generous given boat's age and described condition. If you don't really value your time or like to putter aroud the boats instead of sailing offer to revise the price to say $10K-
12K and get yourself busy with a project. Otherwise walk away.

[kipwrite]

I think if I were in your position and I liked the boat l, I’d get a detailed estimate for each of these repairs and deduct those costs from your contracted price.

If the seller refuses, walk away.

There’s no reason to take any risks here. And no reason to scrimp on any of these repairs.

Find a good yard to work with, and if you close on the boat have the work done properly. If you can do some of the work yourself, wonderful.

A reputable yard will have a sense of what these repairs will cost and will advise you if some of the more serious issues around the deck and hull can be safely addressed.

Good luck.

[JPA Cate]

Hi, Denver Sailors,

I decided to answer this post without reference to preceding posts. I suspect most of the items shall already have been covered. Consider duplication like exclamation marks. If it is not work you are able to do yourselves, all of it will be costly, mainly not completed on time, and possibly not well done.

Originally Posted by DenverSailors

We found a Boat we are very excited about and obtained a survey. She is 30+ years old so we weren’t expecting perfection (only my wife gets better with age!), but the report included items that cause this novice great pause. Would you mind sharing your thoughts on the below items?

An alternative, of course, is to ask for a price reduction and work these things out ourselves. Thoughts?

Very grateful for your time!!!

1. A FUEL LEAK WAS OBSERVED AT THE INJECTOR PUMP. REPAIR AS REQUIRED. Costly, if fuel pump. Source availability and cost.

2. THE RUNNING RIGGING IS SHOWING AGE AND IS GETTING TO THE END OF ITS SERVICE LIFE. 4. INSTALL COTTER PINS IN THE STANDING RIGGING TURNBUCKLES AS REQUIRED. Neglect = cotter pins missing. Boat has not been sailed for some time. Check standing rigging carefully, tune rig. Running rigging will need replacing, depends on how conservative the surveyor is, whether it is usable in the short term. Measure and get quotes for line from suppliers.

3. ODOR WAS NOTED IN THE LPG TANK LOCKER. AND IN THE ENGINE ROOM. THE TANK LOCKER WAS NOT PROPERLY VENTED. INSPECT THE LPG SYSTEM AND SERVICE AS REQUIRED FOR PROPER AND SAFE OPERATION.Venting the locker is usually not major. The tank is leaking, may require replacing, or tightening, check for leaks.

4. ELEVATED MOISTURE WAS OBSERVED IN THE HULL SIDES BELOW THE MIDSHIPS HAWSEPIPES. RESEAL HAWSEPIES AS REQUIRED. A REPAIR WAS NOTED ON THE STARBOARD HULL SIDE FORWARD OF MIDSHIPS. GELCOAT CRACKS AND ELEVATED MOISTURE WAS OBSERVED IN THIS LOCATION. MONITOR. The boat has been sitting for a long time,
and is decaying. If you're not doing the work, get estimates.

5. ELEVATED MOISTURE AND DELAMINATION WAS OBSERVED IN THE DECK AT: THE STARBOARD WEATHER DECK FROM THE WATER DECK PLATE AFT, THE ANCHOR LOCKER LID, THE CABIN TOP PORT SIDE FWD AROUND THE SIX MISSING FASTENER HOLES AND HAND RAIL, THE CABIN TOP STARBOARD FORWARD AROUND THE SOLAR VENT, AND AROUND THE TRAVELER AND AFT AT THE STERN CLEATS. RESEAL DECK HARDWARE AS REQUIRED. This is a lot of wet deck. Again, get estimates, if you decide on this boat, add 50% to the estimates, and then make your offer take into account that cost. Inflation will consume the overage. These repairs will take a looooong time.

6. SEVERAL OF THE BELOW THE WATERLINE THROUGH HULL BALL VALVES WERE STIFF AND CORRODED. SEVERAL HAD PLASTIC ELBOWS AND INCORRECT HOSE TYPES AND HOSES AT THE END OF THEIR SERVICE LIFE. INSPECT AND SERVICE AS REQUIRED ALL BELOW THE WATERLINE VALVES, HOSES, FITTINGS AND CLAMPS. SECURE THE WASTE DISCHARGE VALVE AND Y-VALVE IN THE CLOSED POSITION.Job to be done out of the water: replace the through hull fittings, as needed. All your plumbing is suspect! The surveyor may have missed something, too,
like the cockpit drains.

7. VALVE COVER GASKET WAS LEAKING. THE ENGINE OIL WAS LOW. TOP OFF AND MONITOR. THE PARKER FUEL FILTER WAS DIRTY. Tighten valve cover gasket--if it won't tighten, remove it and its gasket, replace the gasket. You will want to change this oil.
Fill correctly. Do a compression test. Replace fuel filter and buy a dozen or so spares. You do not know how bad what is in the tank is.

8. THE BOW CLEATS ARE LOOSE.Remove, install backing plates if not already present, rebed.

9. THE PROPELLER SHAFT PACKING GLAND WAS WEEPING AT REST AND LOW RPMS. SERVICE AND REPACK AS REQUIRED.You might want to check the shaft for scoring, too. This service and repack could be easy or open a can of worms. On our boat before this, we found the teflon impregnated packing to work very well.

10. RUDDER GLAND WAS WEEPING.This is another job for the haulout: repair may mean dropping and seriously inspecting the rudder. Does it have water in it? Will require re-building, if it does. Find shipwright, get estimate.

Given the level of neglect here, and the moisture below, you would be wise to have suspicion also about the wiring. Expect corroded connections.

No old boat will be without things you will want to fix, barring a miracle, and even brand new boats can have expensive to solve issues. Be advised, most of the work means you will be groveling a lot. If your knees are bad, or you have arthritis, it will be painful groveling. Let your offer reflect what you'll accept for your pain...or walk. Some people would walk away, based on the level of neclect, alone. Since you have little experience, you will be needing a lot of help, so choose well whom you hire. But presumably, you can see the boat, and look at whatever positives it has. It is all too easy to look only at the down side from the security of one's own boat, and computer screen, reading only about the negatives, and none of the pluses.

Ann

Ann

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

After you put in AT LEAST $10K-20K worth of parts/labor it still will be a $30K boat. You contract price sounds way too generous given boat's age and described condition. If you don't really value your time or like to putter aroud the boats instead of sailing offer to revise the price to say $10K-
12K and get yourself busy with a project. Otherwise walk away.

+1, this is a key point. You should make sure you are comfortable with this and also understand that the transaction cost for you to sell the boat are also high.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hi, Denver Sailors,

I decided to answer this post without reference to preceding posts. I suspect most of the items shall already have been covered. Consider duplication like exclamation marks. If it is not work you are able to do yourselves, all of it will be costly, mainly not completed on time, and possibly not well done.



No old boat will be without things you will want to fix, barring a miracle, and even brand new boats can have expensive to solve issues. Be advised, most of the work means you will be groveling a lot. If your knees are bad, or you have arthritis, it will be painful groveling. Let your offer reflect what you'll accept for your pain...or walk. Some people would walk away, based on the level of neclect, alone. Since you have little experience, you will be needing a lot of help, so choose well whom you hire. But presumably, you can see the boat, and look at whatever positives it has. It is all too easy to look only at the down side from the security of one's own boat, and computer screen, reading only about the negatives, and none of the pluses.

Ann

Ann

Like Ann, I have not read in detail all the above posts but first thoughts are

1. How much time are you willing to put into this boat before using it?
2. How many dollars are you willing to throw at it?
3. How much energy are you willing to give it before sailing it.

I am sure it will eat up at least two of the above points and quite possibly all three.

But if you do have the resources (time, money & energy), you just might end up with your dream boat.

[captlloyd]

You have not stated your level of ability to work on a boat. “Novice” can mean different things. If you would be planning on having all work done by someone else I would say things will get pricey. If however you have hands on ability or are willing to learn then posibility exists. This boat does not look like a major project to me, however I would think you could considerably lower your offering price.

[kmacdonald]

If you can't work on it yourself, don't even consider a boat over 10 years old. Maybe even 5 years old, unless of course you have money to burn.

[NevisDog]

Of course you can put all your questions to your surveyor, some are really helpful and knowledgable:
Would he buy this boat?
What is it's market value in current condition?
What will repairs cost?
What is it worth when all repairs complete?
etc etc etc.
A good surveyor will give good advice - may not put it in writing but call him.
(If value after repairs is no more than repair costs then you'll know what to do )