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Old 20-06-2018, 08:04   #16
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Re: Windlass wiring (old Ideal)

Ideal has a pretty good website (or at least did a year ago) that will help you identify the model and will give you the current requirements. You will be surprised at the breaker and solenoid sizes. These are powerful windlass,s. I was confused about how to get the motor to reverse , but the website showed me how. Mine is still sitting under the workbench so I havent looked at the details in a while, but the company was also helpful over the phone. Google is your friend. _____Grant.
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Old 20-06-2018, 10:26   #17
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Re: Windlass wiring (old Ideal)

My Ideal windlass is powered by an AC motor so I cannot offer much to the discussion other than something I question. The windlass should run in both directions and to do that one must switch both wires to the DC motor. Therefore, there should be two heavy wires running to the motor from the junction box and a heavy +12V wire and heavy ground wire running from the battery to the junction box. In the junction box the relays, controlled by the foot switches, should connection +12V and ground from the battery to the motor to run it one way and then reverse those connections to run the windlass the other direction.
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Old 20-06-2018, 11:40   #18
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Re: Windlass wiring (old Ideal)

I have an old IDEAL windlass that i installed on my boat, the wire size from the battery to the circuit breaker and on to the solenoid is based on a 10% voltage drop [check Calders book], the wire from the control [foot switch] to the solenoid does not carry much current, so can be small.
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Old 20-06-2018, 12:08   #19
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Re: Windlass wiring (old Ideal)

Maybe this will help you figure out your wiring for your Ideal windlass. I had a copy in my files, but it appears Schaefer still kept i up on their site.


It would be helpful if you knew the year/model to narrow down to find the proper wiring diagram, but even if you don't, you should be able to figure it out with the diagrams.


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Old 20-06-2018, 15:36   #20
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Re: Windlass wiring (old Ideal)

Shaffer Marine bought Ideal and would be able to help, just ask for Joy, she's very helpful.
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Old 24-06-2018, 22:49   #21
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Re: Windlass wiring (old Ideal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
They're all pretty much the same - there are two circuits; the power circuit for the windlass motor and the control circuit for the switch. I'm guessing that the 'hub' is where these two come together and is likely the solenoid for the windlass.

The control circuit - From the red, lighted switch the +12V goes to one side of the foot switch. From the other side of the foot switch it goes to the coil of the solenoid that is most likely in the 'hub'. There should also be a negative control connection on the hub for the solenoid. That just goes back to the negative/common connection in the electrical panel.

The power circuit - There should be a large, fused cable from the +12V on the battery to the solenoid then another large cable from the solenoid to the positive connection on the windlass motor. The second connection on the motor should be a large cable going back to negative at the battery.

That's what I would expect if there are four connections on the 'hub'; two small connections for the control circuit (one +12V from the foot switch, one negative to complete the control circuit) and two large connections (to control the switching of the large positive wire to the windlass motor).
This is correct. I have an old Ideal on my boat and the solenoid is not in any special box, but its just build into a small homemade plywood box so I can see how all the wires are connected. With these older units we only have an "up" direction unless a more complicated control box (requires four high current relays) is used.

But, do you have any switch near the helm or in the main electric panel that is labeled "WINDLASS"? If so, you will want to see if, when you turn on that switch, you get 12V to appear on one of the smaller wires forward. If so this is the positive 12V control wire that should connect to the foot switch, then from the foot switch you'll have a wire back to the solenoid coil in the control box, which will be one of the smaller terminals.

It won't matter which of the larger terminals on control box is connected to battery/windlass as the solenoid contacts are nothing more than a simple switch and not affected by polarity. The solenoid coil (energized by the switch/control wires) may only work in one direction of current flow but if you get the connection to the coil reversed it won't burn anything out.
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Old 29-06-2018, 12:21   #22
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Re: Windlass wiring (old Ideal)

I got the windlass wired up again. Changed the solenoid and one of the 0 gauge terminals. But the problem now is the motor doesn't run strong. After about 10 seconds it stops and I can hear the solenoid clicking. Batteries are good and the motor sounded STRONG when I test on the bench. I'm thinking the red light switch that provides power to the windlass assembly might be the culprit. Need to fix my multimeter (9v battery melted) . 12volts is what it should read right?

Here are some pics of the electric switch. Is it also a circuit breaker? When I turn it on, the switch tends to not stay in the ON position. Takes a couple of attempts. Once it's ON it seems to stay on. https://ibb.co/hfGTCJ
https://ibb.co/iZTKKy
thanks in advance
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Old 29-06-2018, 15:10   #23
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Re: Windlass wiring (old Ideal)

Unfortunately that is a full power switch/breaker rather than just a control power switch. And yes, if it opens itself it is a breaker rather than just a switch. Could be too small (doubt it since it looks original and presumably worked for a long time), could be old and tired, or could be that bad connections between battery/switch/windlass are stealing voltage (thus raising the current pulled by the motor and tripping the breaker).

Does it trip when you just turn it on (you say it can take several tries to get it to stay on)? Or does it trip when you run the windlass? If it trips when you just turn it on then there is a short/fault someplace in the wiring, most likely ahead of the solenoid (between the breaker and the solenoid or there is a problem with the breaker itself). If it trips only when trying to run the windlass then it could be anywhere, including the breaker itself. The right way to check this would be to put a clamp-on ammeter on the windlass cable and another DVM to measure voltage and run the windlass to see what current and voltage are during the run. I'm presuming you're testing essentially unloaded (not trying to raise the anchor/chain) so if it is failing now when unloaded it will never run under load. Knowing both the unloaded current and voltage would go a long way to solving the problem.

But, if you don't have the gear for that then the next thing I would do is disconnect all the wires (throughout the whole system). Check the terminals to make sure they seem well attached. Clean all of the terminals so they are bright copper/tin. Re-assemble using an anti-corrosive paste on all the terminals. That would include everything at the battery, the breaker, the solenoid, and the windlass.

If that doesn't do it then I'd want to confirm the breaker was operating at the proper rating which is relatively easy to do but requires the right tools/gear.
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Old 29-06-2018, 17:54   #24
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Re: Windlass wiring (old Ideal)

I don't know if it "trips" when I turn it on, it almost more like the springs and latches at the hardware level are fatigued, and it take a couple of tries to catch. Once ON, the switch/breaker doesn't throw. It's only when initially turning it on. And it also doesn't trip when running the windlass.
And right, it would never pull an anchor up. I can stop the windlass with my hands as it is now. When I test the windlass on my garage bench, seemed like it'd break my wrist if I tried to stop it.
DVM is just a multi meter right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
Unfortunately that is a full power switch/breaker rather than just a control power switch. And yes, if it opens itself it is a breaker rather than just a switch. Could be too small (doubt it since it looks original and presumably worked for a long time), could be old and tired, or could be that bad connections between battery/switch/windlass are stealing voltage (thus raising the current pulled by the motor and tripping the breaker).

Does it trip when you just turn it on (you say it can take several tries to get it to stay on)? Or does it trip when you run the windlass? If it trips when you just turn it on then there is a short/fault someplace in the wiring, most likely ahead of the solenoid (between the breaker and the solenoid or there is a problem with the breaker itself). If it trips only when trying to run the windlass then it could be anywhere, including the breaker itself. The right way to check this would be to put a clamp-on ammeter on the windlass cable and another DVM to measure voltage and run the windlass to see what current and voltage are during the run. I'm presuming you're testing essentially unloaded (not trying to raise the anchor/chain) so if it is failing now when unloaded it will never run under load. Knowing both the unloaded current and voltage would go a long way to solving the problem.

But, if you don't have the gear for that then the next thing I would do is disconnect all the wires (throughout the whole system). Check the terminals to make sure they seem well attached. Clean all of the terminals so they are bright copper/tin. Re-assemble using an anti-corrosive paste on all the terminals. That would include everything at the battery, the breaker, the solenoid, and the windlass.

If that doesn't do it then I'd want to confirm the breaker was operating at the proper rating which is relatively easy to do but requires the right tools/gear.
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Old 29-06-2018, 20:02   #25
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Re: Windlass wiring (old Ideal)

If you don't have an amp meter (and, yes, DVM=digital volt meter) then I'd disconnect the wiring from breaker (taking great care with the cable that is still live to the battery - you could create a very large spark) and see if the latching problem still happens. If it happens with no wires attached then the problem is almost certainly tired internals in the breaker. On the other hand, if you disconnect the wires and you can get it to latch on the first go then that indicates that you are getting high current flow when trying to close the breaker.
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Old 29-06-2018, 21:03   #26
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Re: Windlass wiring (old Ideal)

Perhaps I should get a amp meter as I want to improve me 12v electrical competence. Any suggestions here about what amp range is necessary? I have a 30' Angelman Ketch. No genset.
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Old 29-06-2018, 22:54   #27
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Re: Windlass wiring (old Ideal)

For everything else on the boat something that goes to 30A or so is probably plenty and helps provide the low end accuracy that is nice to have. However, the windlass is the one thing that probably needs 200A range.

I have an expensive one in my bag, but they can be had rather inexpensively and probably “good enough”. There’s another thread here on CF in the last week where people were making specific recommendations.

[edit]

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2651588
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