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Old 03-01-2008, 18:37   #31
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I had planned to get a Spade S100 as a secondary (I have Rocna 25 as primary). The prices and delivery times in the US have me rethinking the issue. I'm not sure what I'll do now. I was looking forward to a secondary that disassembled nicely for stowage.
We're currently working on a stowable Rocna. Designs are finished and prototypes underway. For various reasons we think the demountable shank mechanism will be better than that of the Spade.

It'll be a bit more expensive than the regular Rocna, but hopefully not too much.

Watch this space.
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Old 04-01-2008, 05:56   #32
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Good photo-essay comparison, Acoustic.
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:18   #33
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I got a Manson Supreme 45# last year. Used it in everything in the Bahamas. Excellent so far. Gives you that extra bit of confidence in your ground tackle. That and 3/8 chain and a long snubber. My wife says I sleep too well now! as an aside for those interested in wifi antennas. I've been using my Netgate without the long antenna, just the Engenius with the rubber ducky and getting online pretty good here in Nassau. I lash the rubber ducky to a hatch handle and open the hatch. No more going up to the cockpit.
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Old 17-01-2008, 07:47   #34
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I've also done my testing for a season, mostly because of such disparate and contradictory test results made by all sort of 'experts'. I wanted to make a choice base on my cruising ground(Lake Champlain) and my boat, and my parameters. In fact I believe that holding power is just one element of the equation and the only one easily solved by increasing the size of the anchor. Here of few of my personal observations: - All anchors perform poorly in soft mud; - All anchors perform very well in compact sand and firm mud; - Danforth type anchors cannot reset most of the time, and are useless in weeds; - All anchors have drawbacks. So after a season of testing while cruising, I switched from my fairly reliable CQR to a new Spade as my main anchor. I now keep 3 anchors aboard : 1 very large 75# French FOB, 1 66# genuine CQR, and one Spade around 60#. I've tested also a Bruce copy, an Oceane, a Delta and a large Danforth. Up to now, the Spade never failed me, but I hate the hard to remove mud that comes solidly attached to this anchor EVERY time. It makes a good pressure washer in the anchor well mandatory. So in my opinion, there is no yet an ideal anchor, that does everything well, and compromises are the name of the game. As a conclusion, anchor fabrication has more to do with simple steel fabrication than high tech aircraft industries, and well made copies may be as good if not better that original as many copies of Delta proves it. We all know about the argument that you get what you pay for, is simply false in this case: How 60 pound of even the best steel would make a 50% or more in price difference, and how to justify a $800 or $900 price tag for a few pieces of cut and welded steel parts?. The retail price in some anchors has only to do with the seller's pretentions, the markups, the low volume and inefficient production runs and tooling, but mostly with what the buyer is ready to pay.
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Old 17-01-2008, 08:21   #35
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For solving the mud problem, you have to go stainless. I have a stainless Delta that comes up clean as a whistle. My galvanized Rocna acts like your Spade you described by bringing up most of the bottom with it and needing a boat hook and pressure wash to get it off. My Aluminum Spade seems to fall in between the two - definitely brings up mud, but washes off much easier than the galvanized steel. I think this all has to do with the surface finish of the various metals, with SS being a mirror finish, Al being rougher but much more smooth than the galv. steel.

Mark
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Old 17-01-2008, 10:33   #36
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I am becoming a Rocna (20) convert, success so far everytime I have used it in both sand and mud. I don't want to get caught up in the heat that has been generated on another thread re anchors, but' having anchored with a mate using a Manson supreme (similar size) and another using a Delta both the Rocna and the Supreme would have set without being able to say which set faster and the set was as good as immediate, both when dived upon had buried almost completely, The Delta much larger (30 tonne yacht) had to be reset once and took considerably longer to set. This was all within a 100 metre radius so the bottom conditions were pretty much the same.
I can see no reason to ever need my french CQR based anchors again although they are still on board. I am sure there may be construction differences between different manufacturers but in most cases that is really only symantics as they will do well for 99.999% of boaties out there. The only real differential is price and whether you like the idea of a rock slot or not, buyers preferences, or manufacturers meeting the market, depends on your perspective.
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Old 17-01-2008, 10:46   #37
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For solving the mud problem, you have to go stainless. I have a stainless Delta that comes up clean as a whistle. My galvanized Rocna acts like your Spade you described by bringing up most of the bottom with it and needing a boat hook and pressure wash to get it off. My Aluminum Spade seems to fall in between the two - definitely brings up mud, but washes off much easier than the galvanized steel. I think this all has to do with the surface finish of the various metals, with SS being a mirror finish, Al being rougher but much more smooth than the galv. steel.

Mark
I have seen stainless steel Spade -kind of look alike(advertised a Spade)-, but i doubt of it. Considering the price I paid for my steel Spade, I think that a genuine 60 # stainless steel Spade would cost an arm, a leg, then some!. So I will keep fighting the mud! . Thank you, but the are the type of things that you never see in any manufacturer's brochure!.. You just find out the costly way!
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Old 17-01-2008, 18:28   #38
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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
For solving the mud problem, you have to go stainless. I have a stainless Delta that comes up clean as a whistle. My galvanized Rocna acts like your Spade you described by bringing up most of the bottom with it and needing a boat hook and pressure wash to get it off. My Aluminum Spade seems to fall in between the two - definitely brings up mud, but washes off much easier than the galvanized steel. I think this all has to do with the surface finish of the various metals, with SS being a mirror finish, Al being rougher but much more smooth than the galv. steel.
Stainless is easier to clean, but your Delta brings up less mud because it's a plow and just doesn't hold onto the bottom all that well - the Rocna and Spade scoop the ground. An unhappy compromise. If you want the anchor to hold well, it's going to bring back souvenirs.

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I have seen stainless steel Spade -kind of look alike(advertised a Spade)-, but i doubt of it. Considering the price I paid for my steel Spade, I think that a genuine 60 # stainless steel Spade would cost an arm, a leg, then some!. So I will keep fighting the mud! . Thank you, but the are the type of things that you never see in any manufacturer's brochure!.. You just find out the costly way!
The Spade is a complex anchor to build with sophisticated design concepts and difficult fabrication requirements. Furthermore stainless steel plate is extremely expensive, and despite your arguments above concerning costing and copies, you really do get what you pay for (within reason).

Copies always compromise the design of the original anchor. They must come to market at a cheaper price, otherwise they cannot compete with the established brand and reputation of the original. The Delta has a high tensile duplex steel shank with a cast tip and is about as cheap as it could possibly be. Anything cheaper and I will guarantee it is not as good.
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Old 17-01-2008, 19:43   #39
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Craig,
I've noticed the Rocna Anchor is now being sold in West Marine.. Probably from the North America producer... Is the quality control as good as your not there to over-see the operation?
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Old 17-01-2008, 21:55   #40
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Speaking of mud on anchor, had a girl on board who said try spraying the anchor with pam (the non stick coating for cooking). It worked. Use it when ever I'm in mud.
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Old 18-01-2008, 00:43   #41
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Craig,
I've noticed the Rocna Anchor is now being sold in West Marine.. Probably from the North America producer... Is the quality control as good as your not there to over-see the operation?
Yes, it's excellent. Mark, the guy in Vancouver, is a details oriented sort of person and we've been very happy with the production results. They're licensed to produce only to our complete and detailed specifications.
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Old 02-02-2008, 19:57   #42
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great information

Hello Gentleman Just signed up to this amazing site while doing research on anchors and found it very rewarding. I ended up getting a "Rocna 20" which I will be picking up in two days and I'm eagerly looking forward to testing it out. Most of my sailing is around the Channel Islands and it runs the full gambit of sand, mud, rocks and grass.
I have a 1985 CT38 and unlike the other CT's it is a performance cruiser with a modified fin keel and a skeg rudder. It came with teak decks, but when it was time to replace it I vied for paint and non-skid because of the cost.
Thanks for all the info on the anchors I nearly went with the old standby of a 35# CQR. I think I am happy with my decision.
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Old 02-02-2008, 23:20   #43
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We have been cruising with a Rocna 55 for about 6 months now (maybe more?) and have COMPLETE confidence in the anchor.

Before we bought the Rocna we had a Stainless CQR Clone (suncoast) and a Fortress FX 125 on our bow. Neither anchor set reliably in "less than ideal" bottoms... we could usually get them to set, but it might take a go or three to get it right.

The Rocna has set EVERY time we have put it down, including challenging bottoms of rocks and kelp. We sleep better at night.

A challenging anchorage in Mexico: We anchored bow and stern with the Rocna off the bow in 135' of water. We veered 350' of chain for the bow and set the stern anchor at 300' astern in 35' of water. A squall dragged the stern anchor and had us hanging on the bow alone, blowing out to sea and into much deeper water! This was a "worst case" scenario for us as the anchor was set in a significant slope and the chain was a pretty short scope already. The GPS showed that we didn't move, we sailed around the anchor but we didn't move.

I understand that a lot of you don't like Craig, or any other anchor vendor posting here... but we are sold on the Rocna and view it as one of best pieces of gear aboard.
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Old 02-02-2008, 23:31   #44
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The problem was his salesmanship while on the forum. Nothing about the anchor. It was difficult to believe what was being said by whom. Finally Wheels yanked him for a week. From what was said in a previous thread the Mason Supreme and the Ronca were based on the same principles. When it comes time for me to upgrade, I will probably choose the cheaper one. There is a big difference that way.
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Old 02-02-2008, 23:57   #45
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Do I smell malleable mouthpieces being put on line by someone during their forced one week "holiday", or am I just a cynic?

Or is there some other reason for the sudden rebirth of this thread with a burst of posts claiming the particular wonders of a certain anchor over allcomers?
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