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Old 22-08-2008, 20:54   #151
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Gmac, I previously used a 20 lb. plow, 50 ' of 5/16" BBB chain and 300' of 5/8" nylon braid. I now use 1/4" high test chain (300'), stowed amidships, connected to the 15 kg. Rocna. I may stow another, heavier Rocna in the bilge, but carrying that much weight forward on a boat that weighs 12,000 lbs is asking for bad motion. I carry two additional anchor rodes always set up in deck wet lockers fore and aft. The stern uses a 12 lb. Hi tensile Danforth, and the other is available since I dumped my two plows.
Interesting swap you did there Roy. A 20lb plow.... geezzz that's a bit tiny. You must feel a lot safer now. Personally I'd have swapped the anchor onto your old rode myself, mainly just for weight reasons but you made a good call I'd say. Snubber up well, the 1/4" won't take big shock loads as well as your old rode.

Next question, if I may. Why did you change the rode?

Cat Man, Yes Manson have just gone weight for weight which does seem a bit weird really considering the big step up in performance over the plows. I spoken with them and they are looking at it, they are a conservative bunch sometimes, which isn't really a bad thing when most boaters only look at the anchor and not the 'system'.

As we just can't find any performance difference between the Supreme or Rocnas and like the Rocna sizing, we tend to use Rocnas guide for Supremes as well. The Rocna sizing guide we think is one of the best and most reliable out there even if a bit OTT for some boats on the smaller end. FYI - The Raya's sizing looks very good as well.
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Old 22-08-2008, 22:27   #152
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Gmac, I will be heading to areas where chain will help me sleep better than nylon. I also have made the conversion to an electric windlass which aids in that decision. The nylon snubbers are a requisite to said night's good sleep, all that noise from the chain twisting and scraping tends to keep me from getting my beauty rest. The windlass also has a capstan which allows me to handle the nylon rode when I wish to use it, as well. It also comes in handy as the "donkey engine", hoisting treasure aboard, or allowing me to engage in other activities.

My judgement of anchor size is based on my experiences in a variety of weather and setting and having dragged a variety of designs through the bottom. Each skipper gets to make those choices as they see fit, using the peculiarities of their individual craft to handle the sea and ground tackle. The fortunate ones survive and learn. The less experienced can also learn or not. The really experienced seem to continue to learn that they don't have all the answers.

Ferrocement boats, fiberglass and steel, old wooden seaboats, and others of their mass seem to have learned that weight is great. Light multihulls behave more like aircraft than assault ships. While great, hulking anchors, attached to massive chain have kept these traditional vessels secured, the same philosophy doesn't seem to work as well with the lighter craft. Chain gives catenary, which is good for all ground tackle. It resists abrasion where that can be a significant concern. It can also hold the bow down if badly stowed or oversized for its load. By keeping my boat from acquiring useless weight through the building process, and constantly monitoring the placement of gear and peanut butter, I have achieved a comfortable balance for my boat that gives me greater confidence when anchored in less than perfect bottoms, and when the low swings deep and the swell moves into the sheltered cove.

I like the Rocna, better than any design I have ever used. If I find one that grabs and holds better, I will consider it. If someone comes up with stronger, lighter chain, I'll buy a new gypsy and probably convert. If synthetic lines become more common and reliable for ground tackle, I'll even consider them. Until then I'll keep my dependable Rocna(s) and light Danforth, and even the small grapnel, nylon rodes with chain, and the main event chain rode.
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Old 22-08-2008, 22:57   #153
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Ahh.. Roy, you are indeed a wise man and I love your train of though, it's a damn good one. I was 1/2 expecting a 'Oh my mate said....." sort of an answer, not one based on sound logic and common sense

While there is stronger and lighter chains, I just wouldn't go there, they have many downsides. Besides the weight savings over your 1/4" would be minimal compared to the big extra cost.

I suspect you'll be waiting for a long time to see any great leap above the Rocna and it's close cousins. I think we'll see a few like the Raya maybe that has the same load holding but with a few extra features (the soft bottom/mud setting for example) but that's about it for the near future. And to be honest I'd argue the Rocna will hold miles more than most boaters would ever use or need now, some cruisers excepted.

And just as a FYI - I read just this morning NZ and the world is suffering a major shortage of peanuts hence peanut butter. So enjoy what you have and guard it well, it may become the new 'must have' commodity and be worth moonbeams
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Old 14-03-2009, 09:30   #154
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Roll Bar, Mason

The roll bar on a Mason is very useful to grab hold of set the anchor up-right so that it has a chance of digging. I have watched it skip along a grassy bottom in 8' of water with 75' of chain out, a Magna Supreme 60 tied to a CT 47 in the reef area of Belize. If you baby it, it will eventaully set. Not impressed with my "bargin buy" In consulting with West marine, they assured me that the Magna was superior to the Rocna. Don't know, couldn't afford the Rocna.
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Old 14-03-2009, 13:15   #155
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rka699, I'm a little unsure as to which anchor you are writing about, I have never heard of a Magna Supreme 60, could you mean a Manson Supreme? If it is a Manson Supreme it is as near to identical to a Rocna only cheaper and is made in NZ, not in China, as Rocna seems to have moved its production over there. In my experience the Manson Supreme will set better than most and at least as well as any of the new generation of anchors. I don't know what the reef area of Belize is like but if a Manson Supreme won't set there, then you will have the same problem with any other of the new generation let alone the old.
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Old 14-03-2009, 16:26   #156
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I didn't do well in spelling, did I. Yes it is a Manson Supreme 60. i was buddy boating with a friend who has a Valient 40. He uses a CQR 60 lb and it sets well in the same conditions. His anchor digs in whereas the Manson wants to skip. It lays on it side and if I dive down and set it upright, it digs in better. I think that you must be very patient with the Manson which if you drag in a change of wind or direction then resetting is probably not going to happen
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Old 14-03-2009, 19:19   #157
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Thank you GMac for your kind words, however, I am merely mortal and screw up with alacrity. I'm sorry that I haven't responded earlier but dark Forces from the Slavic Regions have apparently tried to disrupt the Forum (per another thread regarding not being notified about subscribed threads). My only significant comment is that we all get to try the hardware and make our own choices, and suffer the consequences, and hopefully, own up to them. Therefore, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I hope I don't swing into you or drag down to you in whatever anchorage we meet in, though I hope we have the opportunity to meet someday, somewhere nice.
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Old 14-03-2009, 23:48   #158
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rka699, my experience is the opposite of yours, my problem is that my Rocna (Manson Supreme clone) digs in so rapidly the chain skips of the gypsy, initially I would pull back as I would with the CQR type anchor I used previously knowing that it would eventually set, doing this with the Rocna stands the boat on its nose within a metre or 2 of the chain coming tight.
Of curiosity to me just what is the bottom you are anchoring in, Sand? mud, hard packed clay, coral, Rock??
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Old 15-03-2009, 07:13   #159
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I should be so lucky or good. The bottom is sandy clay with grass. I am told by much more experienced charter captains that the area is tough to anchor in. The grass prevents the anchor from "digging in". When I "baby" the Manson, it will dig in up to a point, it will never bury as you see in pictures. If you put additional pressure on it to dig deeper, it will simply pull out and then start skipping. I'm sure that all anchors require some knowledge of how best to set them, I just expected this anchor to drop and set and no worries. It looks mean. I am told by others that the Manson Supreme is not the anchor that the Rocna is. Too late for me on that one.
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Old 15-03-2009, 13:04   #160
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Obviously this proves the rule that there is no one anchor that will work in every situation. Once you leave the area that you are experiencing difficulties in I think the Manson Supreme will exceed your expectations. Were I alongside you with my Rocna I wouldn't expect it to be anymore successful than the Supreme as they are clones,the only major difference being the price and place of manufacture. It would be interesting to see how the Spade (which has a weighted tip) would cope. I keep 2 of my previous CQR type anchors as back ups, perhaps this would be a bottom that they could re earn my respect on.
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Old 15-03-2009, 14:49   #161
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Obviously this proves the rule that there is no one anchor that will work in every situation. Once you leave the area that you are experiencing difficulties in I think the Manson Supreme will exceed your expectations. Were I alongside you with my Rocna I wouldn't expect it to be anymore successful than the Supreme as they are clones,the only major difference being the price and place of manufacture. It would be interesting to see how the Spade (which has a weighted tip) would cope. I keep 2 of my previous CQR type anchors as back ups, perhaps this would be a bottom that they could re earn my respect on.
I have the spade a140 and its not as good in the weeds as my 45lb MS- what works better than both for me is a simple cheap grapel type for thick weeds or rocks
I currently have 4 anchors onboard
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Old 15-03-2009, 15:10   #162
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I think a grapnel type would definitely be worth trying, Here many recreational fishermen use grapnels in rock or on difficult bottoms, often they don't have the fluke on the end just being either 8, 10, or 12mm rod that can / will straighten out if it gets stuck in a rocky bottom, of course it needs to be re-bent before reuse. Cheap to make, you would want an anchor watch if used overnight though.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:14   #163
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Thank you GMac for your kind words, however, I am merely mortal and screw up with alacrity. I'm sorry that I haven't responded earlier but dark Forces from the Slavic Regions have apparently tried to disrupt the Forum (per another thread regarding not being notified about subscribed threads). My only significant comment is that we all get to try the hardware and make our own choices, and suffer the consequences, and hopefully, own up to them. Therefore, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I hope I don't swing into you or drag down to you in whatever anchorage we meet in, though I hope we have the opportunity to meet someday, somewhere nice.
No worries at all Roy, I've been away too much myself with sailing and work. I'm sure you won't drag into me, you seem to think well even if you may think you don't at time. Just the way you say things tells me that I can anchor downwind and then row upwind to your fridge with confidence

I suppose you won't be at the bottom end of Waiheke over Easter

rka699 - Generally anchors 'skipping' is a sign you are moving a bit fast to let them get in. We have seen and heard a few issues just like you describe and when told to slow down a bit they go away. Very very common problem with plows that one. Most anchors prefer very slow setting speeds. It's a tricky one as often 1kt is fine and 2kts is way too much. I just let the wind/tide push me back until I feel the anchor bite then apply gentle power slowly building up to full revs. I don't have massive Hp so my 'full revs' is bugger all really. Actually 99% of the time I never power my anchor in just let the boat do it.

You don't want to be moving at much speed at all when these new ones dig in, they will stop you very fast. So far we have heard of 3 people flying off the back of a boat when their Supreme stopped the boat so fast. Also a broken wrist from the same situation using a Rocna.

The Revenge of the Anchors.....
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