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Old 04-10-2016, 12:42   #31
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Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

Three of your large fenders might do as a float in a hurry.

Is the chain plate the best place to attach to? They are generally designed for vertical loads. What happens if a trawler catches your chain at night and tows you off around the Solent. That could be an exceptional load.

I wrap the chain around a cleat and use the snubber to take the load off and stop the chain grinding across the deck. I haven't worked out the breaking strain of the 10mm nylon snubber line but its over 1000kgs which would pull the bow under before breaking.

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Old 04-10-2016, 13:03   #32
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Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

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Sounds like good practice

Some points of which I may imitate. I hadn't thought about the float.
I should reiterate that I do not do this consistently, but certainly would if I thought I'd have to get to sea in a hurry. I can't afford to lose too many of the size and make of the anchors I favour! In addition, a particularly "stuck" anchor can use such a line on the crown (if it's, say, 4 mm Dynemma) to haul out the anchor. The float could be a disreputable fender with your boat's name on it in the marker of your choice. It just has to float until things quiet down.

I salvaged some lead window sash weights that not only suit for "lights out depth sounding" but work perfectly for this sort of trip line/finder float setup.
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Old 04-10-2016, 13:27   #33
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Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

A trip line always makes sense as does a snubber with a chain. So does an anchor sally with rope.

A small effort for saving a possilbe disastrous result . JMHO
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Old 04-10-2016, 13:47   #34
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Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

We do not often do it, but there are times when I think it is a good idea to buoy the anchor with a small fender. One time was waiting for a cyclone, in a good "hole", and we wanted subsequently arriving boats to be able to tell where our anchor was.

Another possible use for the practice would be for anchoring in rivers that flood annually. Had we done that in Tasmania earlier this year, we might not have had to lose the anchor, as well as 70 ft. of chain.

One's practices depend on where you sail, and what the risks are. However, we always use the snubber, in our case it is nylon, double braid, 16 mm diameter. As it is part of the anchoring process for us, it is no extra effort, and only seconds of work.

If you have questions relative to the logic of such heavy snubber, ask Jim to explain, he's got sound reasons for the practice, and is far better at explaining such things than am I.

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Old 04-10-2016, 14:00   #35
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Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

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We do not often do it, but there are times when I think it is a good idea to buoy the anchor with a small fender. One time was waiting for a cyclone, in a good "hole", and we wanted subsequently arriving boats to be able to tell where our anchor was.

Another possible use for the practice would be for anchoring in rivers that flood annually. Had we done that in Tasmania earlier this year, we might not have had to lose the anchor, as well as 70 ft. of chain.

One's practices depend on where you sail, and what the risks are. However, we always use the snubber, in our case it is nylon, double braid, 16 mm diameter. As it is part of the anchoring process for us, it is no extra effort, and only seconds of work.

If you have questions relative to the logic of such heavy snubber, ask Jim to explain, he's got sound reasons for the practice, and is far better at explaining such things than am I.

Cheers,

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It would almost appear three stand nylon would have more stretch?
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Old 04-10-2016, 14:42   #36
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Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

I am persuaded that a nylon snubber in a good idea. It does a few things.

It is a spring to reduce the load on the anchor. When sailing at anchor I recall it having been measured somewhere that a snubber can halve the peak pull on the anchor by decelerating the boat more gently. This means your anchor has a better chance of not failing. Sure a long catenary will do the same, but it will not be as gentle as it will be with a snubber as well.

It relieves the windlass from load and if you are going to install something to do that, then you may as well fit a snubber as it gives you other advantages for the same effort.

When digging in an anchor it is easy to misjudge or to catch a big rock and back-wind the windlass or shock load the cleats, a snubber can help here and cover your screw up.

It is gentle on the cleats in a way that chain isn't.

It makes no noise unlike chain, which will grind over the roller.

The difficult thing is to get a good stretch the snubber needs to be thin and this means you have a problem in extreme winds as it may break. Wise to wrap a tail of chain around a cleat then maybe. An alternative solution is a longer snubber. That is how I do it now and it is closely matched to my chain strength.
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Old 04-10-2016, 15:11   #37
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Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

One time in Mexico at the Los Muertos anchorage we were on the south side behind a low spit of wind. Thirty knots of wind blew for three days out of the north. We did not have more than a hundred feet of fetch so not much chop (thankfully).

The rode was bar tight. I could have bounced a steel pipe off of it. I managed to get a snubber on it but worried it would snap and hurt something but it held. We were in 25' of water and I had 250' of 3/8" BBB galvanized chain out.

We were ready to start the engine on sudden notice and motor out. Luckily we had a few hundred yards behind us to the far shore.

I also had to remove white sani-hose from an impossible place and beat the crystals out of it. Not a good three days.
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Old 04-10-2016, 15:39   #38
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Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

I feel quite uncomfortable at using the inner foresail rigging as the way to engage the snubber!!

If any, i'd use the mast itself, but never so the standing rig, although at the deck level (indeed, the forestay is attached to the hull 2meters down...)

Cleats are designed for such a use, i actually use both also to prevent or diminish lateral moves of the bow
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Old 04-10-2016, 15:47   #39
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Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

I seldom use a snubber. One reason is I like to hear what the chain is doing. IF the wind shifts, the chain can be heard doubling and rumbling over itself. A snubber inhibits this feadback.
Also, mostly I anchor in calm waters. No noise.
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Old 04-10-2016, 16:25   #40
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Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

You know I have never heard any noise from the chain, but seems I'm always in sand or mud or a mix.
I use a bridle of dual 25' three strand, cause it's cheap and stretchy, using both cleats seems to help some with sailing about at anchor. I keep meaning to try attaching to a midship cleat on one side to see if that makes sailing any better.


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Old 04-10-2016, 16:46   #41
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Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

That's right, Cadence, part of the idea is to limit the "slingshot" effect from a more stretchy line.

A64pilot,

Wait till you get to corally anchorages, some of them are (according to Jim, ) noisy as skeletons s----ing on a tin roof in a hail storm.

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Old 04-10-2016, 16:55   #42
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Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
....Surprisingly -- even in 25 knot winds and choppy water, as long as I have at least 60 or 70 meters of it out -- it does not ever seem to come anywhere near snatching, and works just fine, without a snubber.

Yesterday, the wind shifted and deprived me of my shelter, exposing me to a long fetch, with wind gusting in the low '20's. It was uncomfortable, so I moved, but with 80 meters of chain out, I felt no need for the snubber. The chain catenary was fully damping out all snatching.

You did not give the depth of water. Assuming 7:1 scope, I'm guessing about 8-9 meters.

The rule of thumb on catenary is that in shallow waters (<10') snatching starts at 12-15 knots, in 10-15 feet snatching starts around 25', and in 25 feet, not until 25 knots.

I think you simply were not in enough wind to see it for that water depth.

Valhala: While it should not be a weak point, you will NOT get suggicient stretch if it is sized to match the anchor chain (rope rode is generally stronger than the chain, because the working load of rope is lower). In fact, numerous long distance cruisers go much lighter than the chain. If it is long enough, the forces are lower and it will not break. Practical Sailor studied this a few months ago, based on a lot of testing.

Cadence: 3-strand will twist (unlay under load, and this has been know to cause the chain to wind around the snubber causing chafe. Does not always happen, but it is a reason that some avoid it. I use a 35' climbing rope bridle (in shallow water it is cleated at midships to keep it off the bottom). Works great.

I often anchor as shallow as 5', but not if waves are a factor.
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Old 04-10-2016, 16:57   #43
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Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

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I went to Dyneema as a "cut and run fuse" for the bitter end. The core of it is probably stronger than the chain, but will part in three swipes of a breadknife.
Why Dyneema? Does it do anything better than polyester or a lashing in this application, other than harder to cut? I'm not feeling the usefulness. Personally, I find Dyneema to be overused.
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Old 04-10-2016, 17:00   #44
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pirate Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
You know I have never heard any noise from the chain, but seems I'm always in sand or mud or a mix.
I use a bridle of dual 25' three strand, cause it's cheap and stretchy, using both cleats seems to help some with sailing about at anchor. I keep meaning to try attaching to a midship cleat on one side to see if that makes sailing any better.


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If you use a snubber or bridle you won't.. it transmits along the chain till the snubber which acts as a silencer.. remove the snubber/bridle and you'll hear it
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Old 04-10-2016, 17:03   #45
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Re: Who Needs a Snubber, Anyway?

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Why Dyneema? Does it do anything better than polyester or a lashing in this application, other than harder to cut? I'm not feeling the usefulness. Personally, I find Dyneema to be overused.
I use Dynema from the cleat to the roller on the anchor (and cleat to the hawse on dock lines) to eliminate the noise the nylon makes as it stretches and rubs against the hawse or roller. Make a huge difference in the noise level in the v-berth when the wind picks up.

Also greatly reduces chafe. All that noise is just chafing.
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