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Old 10-08-2018, 07:00   #1
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What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

I have exchanged contracts on a Nicholson 55. A fabulous sailing machine but I have to start from scratch in the anchor department, and since I expect to be making very heavy use of the anchor(s) I want to get it right. Money is not unlimited.

The boat has twin bow rollers which are set up a bit above the deck. This photo of a sister ship shows the foredeck area (the inner forestay is off, but you can see the lever for it). The two deck eyes aft of the inner forestay and ahead of the hatch are just parking places for the staysail halyards and can be moved.



There is loads of space in the chain locker. The boat is wired for 12 volts. The engine is a recent Yanmar and there are no hydraulics. I am expecting to dispose of the existing 1/2” G4 chain and replace it with 12mm.

I have a completely open mind about vertical or horizontal but I do want something that will be durable (these boats are well known for being “wet” to windward) and easy to maintain, so I would prefer not too many mixed metals, and the ability to take it apart for attention.
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:30   #2
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Re: What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

I will follow your thread here, as I am thinking about the same myself.
Mine is still working, but it is from 1982, so I guess it won`t live forever.
I have been looking on both Lofrans (titan) and Quick (hr5). My boat is a couple of tons more, but I am thinking about a 55kg (rocna or vulcan) anchor with 100m 12mm chain. The chain is about 3,4kg pr meter, so I am looking at 395kg with all chain out, worst case.
And the windlass I have seen is then in the $5000 + range. And to be honest, that is a good slump of money.
So will wait for you to get some good tips here, and perhaps those will be suitable for me aswell

Cheers
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:40   #3
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Re: What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

Welcome to Cruisers Forum Methersgate...
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:41   #4
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Re: What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steini-nor View Post
I will follow your thread here, as I am thinking about the same myself.
Mine is still working, but it is from 1982, so I guess it won`t live forever.
I have been looking on both Lofrans (titan) and Quick (hr5). My boat is a couple of tons more, but I am thinking about a 55kg (rocna or vulcan) anchor with 100m 12mm chain. The chain is about 3,4kg pr meter, so I am looking at 395kg with all chain out, worst case.
And the windlass I have seen is then in the $5000 + range. And to be honest, that is a good slump of money.
So will wait for you to get some good tips here, and perhaps those will be suitable for me aswell

Cheers
Very glad to have your company! Yes, I think our ideas are the same. It doesn’t have to look pretty, but it does have to work at 2am in F9, again and again...
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:22   #5
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Re: What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

Thoughts on sizing a windlass.

The manufacturers comments like"great for a 40 footer" are pretty meaningless, for example a 40 footer AWB's gear will be different from a 40 steel boat's gear from a 40 Cat's gear

Calculate the total weight of the chain you are going to carry and the anchor then check the windlass is capable of lifting the total weight and maybe add a bit.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:40   #6
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Re: What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on the new boat.

A 3500 lb windlass is about the largest that will run on 12v. With an anchor windlass big is better, although 3500 is not really large for this boat.

Muir and Maxwell have the best reputation of the mainstream manufacturers, with Lighthouse as a extremely well build alternative (although their sizing is a little different and probably more honest).

There are pros and cons regarding horizontal vs vertical, but for a retrofit it is more about which fits better.
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:37   #7
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Re: What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triumphant View Post
Thoughts on sizing a windlass.

The manufacturers comments like"great for a 40 footer" are pretty meaningless, for example a 40 footer AWB's gear will be different from a 40 steel boat's gear from a 40 Cat's gear

Calculate the total weight of the chain you are going to carry and the anchor then check the windlass is capable of lifting the total weight and maybe add a bit.
I agree that that gives a minimum, but in addition one can try the sort of approach that a Class Society takes in computing a merchant ship’s Equipment Numeral: calculate the wind load that the boat will put on the chain in F8 and compute the power needed to get the anchor up from a depth of one third of the length of the chain, with the engine on slow ahead? ( The number may be similar).
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:40   #8
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Re: What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Welcome to the forum and congratulations on the new boat.

A 3500 lb windlass is about the largest that will run on 12v. With an anchor windlass big is better, although 3500 is not really large for this boat.

Muir and Maxwell have the best reputation of the mainstream manufacturers, with Lighthouse as a extremely well build alternative (although their sizing is a little different and probably more honest).

There are pros and cons regarding horizontal vs vertical, but for a retrofit it is more about which fits better.
That’s extremely helpful; a very experienced Australian friend also suggested Muir.
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Old 10-08-2018, 22:37   #9
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Re: What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

We can give a thumbs up to the Lighthouse 1501. 300’ 3/8” chain and a 20kg Bruce. We installed it about 15 years ago and have been out cruising ever since. And no issues to report.
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Old 11-08-2018, 07:03   #10
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Re: What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

First onto my short list is the Muir VCR 3500. With a working load of 397kg and a 1,500kw 12v motor, it just “makes the cut”, and it seems well put together with provision for maintenance.

https://winch-center.de/en/shop/muir...r3500-vrc3500/

I considered and discarded the Lofrans Falkon, which is much cheaper, because I don’t like aluminium on a wet foredeck.

https://jimmygreen.com/lofrans-windl...so_13mm_din766

The Lighthouse windlasses seem to be extremely well thought through, and beautifully made, but alas the boat seems to fall between the 1501 and the 3002, and with Sterling going down the tubes they are getting more and more expensive. In my dreams I would go for the 3000.
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:42   #11
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Re: What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

Would strongly recommend you talk to Vetus Maxwell.
Just changed Anchorlift windlass to Maxwell.
Maxwell is very good to deal with.
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:59   #12
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Re: What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

Mine is 20 tons 47ft chain 10mm Anchor 42 kgs - Lofrans Tigres, wire 50 mm˛ on 10m length. 12V.

Ther motor was a 1000W so I changed it to the max of 1500W

Specification:

Boat length: 40 - 40 ft
Maximum lift Load/Pull (lb): 750 lbs / 375 kgs
Max Lift Working Load (lb): 190 lbs / 85 kgs

-------------------------------------------

OK the data - so far

1m of 10mm chain is 2,2 kgs, max is 85 kgs - Anchor 42kg = 43kgs left for the chain.
43/2,2 = 19,5m vertical lift.

In fact, and tested it does not even more than 10 meters and gives up.
OK I will check my setup BUT my message is

DO NOT TRUST THE MANUALS.

Best would be to go to a supplier that does the installation too and fix him to your parameters. Let him install and if it does not fit - make it to his problem!
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:07   #13
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Re: What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methersgate View Post
I have exchanged contracts on a Nicholson 55. A fabulous sailing machine but I have to start from scratch in the anchor department, and since I expect to be making very heavy use of the anchor(s) I want to get it right. Money is not unlimited.

The boat has twin bow rollers which are set up a bit above the deck. .
The anchor is the right place to start since you need anchor, chain, and windlass. I had to do the same process on my Oyster 55. I'm not meaning to start an anchor debate, but I chose a Spade. I talked to the Spade rep at the Annapolis Boat Show and he recommended a size for my boat. I bought one size bigger, a 99-pounder. It holds like a champ, but it is so large that I don't have room to mount a second anchor on the other bow roller. Well, I wouldn't want that much weight up there anyway. I sold the 75-pound CQR and put the 44-pound Bruce in the lazarette. Make sure the anchor you decide on is going to fit. Sometimes the roll bars on Rocnas and Mansons can be a problem on the roller.

Next, the chain. I decided that a 3/8" chain was adequate and bought HT to keep the weight down.

Finally, the windlass. I bought a Maxwell VWC3500 24 volt and have been very happy with it. The VW means vertical windlass and the C is for the chain pipe that feeds the chain directly into the chain locker. I have been very satisfied with it. You can buy them at several places online for around $3600. Not cheap, but it's a hoss!

Consider adding a Maxwell Windlass Control & Chain Counter at the helm. It's another $500 plus installation, but it's the best "luxury" item I have on the boat. Well, maybe after the bow thruster.
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:16   #14
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Re: What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

44’, 20 ton, 125# Mantus, 3/8” chain, anchor almost exclusively. Lofrans Falcon.

Curious, what is objection to aluminum on a wet deck?
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:17   #15
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Re: What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

Welcome to the forum Methersgate.

Our ketch weighs in at 22+ tons as well. In 2014 we had to go throught the same exercise you are and decided upon the Lighthouse 1501. It is plenty substantial for our twin bow anchors [99lb Spade, 80lb Supermax, with 550ft of 5/16" G43 chain between them.]

A Lighthouse 1501 will handle your needs no problem, and they are great to work [and competitive] with for custom deck and backing plates, windlass pedestals, etc...

If you are interested, there are more details with annotated photos of the installation on this page of our blog.

Best wishes finding what will best suit your needs.

Cheers! Bill
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