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Old 14-09-2015, 10:09   #1
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What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

This is the cleat just aft of our windlass, and presumably for attaching a snubber. However, a simple cleat hitch doesn't get enough friction off just the two bits. What is the best way to attach a line to this? I want to be able to detach the line while under load.

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Old 14-09-2015, 10:22   #2
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

A regular cleat hitch should work. If it's slipping consider taking an extra turn or two.
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Old 14-09-2015, 10:29   #3
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

Try a TUGBOAT hitch (also called a lighterman's hitch) ...how to tie it can be seen at Grog's animated knots...good luck
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Old 14-09-2015, 11:11   #4
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottMeilicke View Post
This is the cleat just aft of our windlass, and presumably for attaching a snubber. However, a simple cleat hitch doesn't get enough friction off just the two bits. What is the best way to attach a line to this? I want to be able to detach the line while under load.

Thanks.
Yes a regular cleat hitch won't catch the line well. This is a mooring cleat, fairly unusual I think unless you are throwing a loop over it so I BELIEVE the correct way is to do it as this website shows a wharf tie, with fewer turns...
How not to knot | MyDockStuff

I am guessing you have 5/8 or bigger so it looks like you can only fit two figure eights. I'd try finishing with a hitch on the forward post. But that is probably not a very satisfying answer especially if the line won't fit!
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Old 14-09-2015, 11:27   #5
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

I'd probably just take a few figure of eights as you would with a normal cleat hitch and then finish it off by throwing a couple of loops over the aft horn to make a clove hitch. There shouldn't be too much pressure on the clove hitch since it's going around the horns first, so it shouldn't jam. If it does, try using a tugboat hitch as suggested previously, again over the aft horn.
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Old 14-09-2015, 11:55   #6
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottMeilicke View Post
This is the cleat just aft of our windlass, and presumably for attaching a snubber. However, a simple cleat hitch doesn't get enough friction off just the two bits. What is the best way to attach a line to this? I want to be able to detach the line while under load.

Thanks.
Don't know exactly what you mean by a simply cleat hitch
Did you try an O X O as per the RYA
Take a full 360 around the horns
Then a figure 8
Then another 360
Pull the last 360 tight
When releasing take the last O off then the X
And you still have a full 360 on for control
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Old 14-09-2015, 12:54   #7
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foothillsailor View Post
Try a TUGBOAT hitch (also called a lighterman's hitch) ...how to tie it can be seen at Grog's animated knots...good luck
I think a tugboat hitch is of most use when you have just one post. It is very secure (more so than the standard round turn and two half hitches). It is a useful knot if a line must be secured around a winch (even with a self tailing winch it is good to take the load off the jaws in this situation).

I can't see how it is any better than a cleat hitch with several crossings though. Can anyone comment on this?

If there is no room on the cleat (or two posts) for lots of crossings using a cleat hitch, then there is no room for a tugboat hitch either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time2Go View Post
Don't know exactly what you mean by a simply cleat hitch
Did you try an O X O as per the RYA
Take a full 360 around the horns
Then a figure 8
Then another 360
Pull the last 360 tight
When releasing take the last O off then the X
And you still have a full 360 on for control
Cheers
Generally a full 360 is not recommended first, as it can jam. Is this what the RYA suggest as a standard hitch on a cleat?

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Old 14-09-2015, 16:25   #8
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

[QUOTE=



Generally a full 360 is not recommended first, as it can jam. Is this what the RYA suggest as a standard hitch on a cleat?

SWL[/QUOTE]


All I can say was this was the method
taught to me during Competent crew
Day Skipper and reinforced during
Coastal Skipper courses. All these
Courses were taught by Ocean Yachtmaster Examiners
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Old 14-09-2015, 17:15   #9
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

> Generally a full 360 is not recommended first, as it can jam.

I agree completely. If the RYA are teaching a full 360, they are not teaching best practice.

With a full 360, if there is any surge in the line, the first turn can drop away from the cleat and then clamp back over the line. Once that happens, you can't release the line while there is tension on it.

As for the OP's question, a standard cleat hitch should do it, just increase the number of Figure 8s if it is slipping.
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Old 14-09-2015, 17:35   #10
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

What sort of rope are you using?
What size is the rope?
How many turns are you taking?

Some rope that people use is just down right slippery.
If the rope is too big for the cleat it just wont lay right and you wont be able to take enough turns.

Re the initial 360 before figure 8ing it... we used to take a 180 then figure8 it on ships ... but don't think anyone knew why.

You can if you so desire through a locking turn in to finish it off if there is any chance of the tail deciding to get lively....
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Old 14-09-2015, 18:26   #11
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

There is a special way to tie on to that type of cleat, and it's not our X O X O.

I'll post it if I can remember it.
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Old 14-09-2015, 19:22   #12
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time2Go View Post
All I can say was this was the method
taught to me during Competent crew
Day Skipper and reinforced during
Coastal Skipper courses. All these
Courses were taught by Ocean Yachtmaster Examiners
After a bit of google-**, I found this:

Yachtmaster for Sail and Power: The Complete Course for the RYA Coastal and Offshore Yachtmaster Certificate. Figure 19.10 does not have a full 360 before starting the Figure 8.

https://books.google.com.pg/books?id...0hitch&f=false
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Old 14-09-2015, 19:41   #13
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

I could be mistaken, but the photo looks like its displaying small yachty bits, not a cleat at all. They look like a pain in the neck. Maybe just a locking hitch, which I think people are referring to as a tug hitch.

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Old 14-09-2015, 20:27   #14
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
I could be mistaken, but the photo looks like its displaying small yachty bits, not a cleat at all. They look like a pain in the neck. Maybe just a locking hitch, which I think people are referring to as a tug hitch.

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Are you talking about the OP's photo? That's what I know as a "mushroom cleat" or "double bit bollard". I've sailed a couple of boats which have those as the primary deck cleats for mooring. The purpose of the open centre is to stop the pile up of figure 8 crossovers on top of the cleat.

You do want to wrap round both horns using a normal cleat hitch.
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Old 14-09-2015, 20:32   #15
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

Stu, yes, I am referring to the OPs photo. I agree, figure 8's. If he feels a need to finish the eights, then a locking hitch.

I definitely agree, 8's first.

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