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Old 15-09-2015, 04:50   #16
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Are you talking about the OP's photo? That's what I know as a "mushroom cleat" or "double bit bollard"...
“... A general note, A bitt is on a vessel, a bollard is on land. Cleats can be anywhere. Bitts can be in either single or double fashion, with or without horns ...”
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Old 15-09-2015, 10:15   #17
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

I'd probably take a full turn around one end then crossover with a full turn and a slip hitch on the other depending on the load and how long it needs to hold.
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Old 15-09-2015, 15:02   #18
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
“... A general note, A bitt is on a vessel, a bollard is on land. Cleats can be anywhere. Bitts can be in either single or double fashion, with or without horns ...”
Making up to Barges ➥ http://trainweb.org/AbandonedLIRR/makingup2.pdf
Incredibly useful; you are a wizard, Gord, and continue to amaze me even after all these years

What I take away from this is that on a barge at least you never use any kind of a knot for a towline, and for the type of device shown by the OP, which would be called "double bitts", you would indeed use a series of figure eights to make off the line, without "O"s, and without any hitch or locking turn.

The bargeman's hitch, as described here, is finished with a lot of round turns only.

I see all the logic in this. I wonder if this is an argument against the locking last turn we use with cleats?
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Old 15-09-2015, 15:31   #19
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

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Incredibly useful; you are a wizard, Gord, and continue to amaze me even after all these years

What I take away from this is that on a barge at least you never use any kind of a knot for a towline, and for the type of device shown by the OP, which would be called "double bitts", you would indeed use a series of figure eights to make off the line, without "O"s, and without any hitch or locking turn.

The bargeman's hitch, as described here, is finished with a lot of round turns only.

I see all the logic in this. I wonder if this is an argument against the locking last turn we use with cleats?
DH, I never permit use of locking hitches on cleats on my boat and I nearly fired a mate once for using one on a commercial tug. If you're ever girded by a tow many times the size of your towing vessel, I can almost guarantee you'll never use a locking hitch again for anything other than docking.


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Old 15-09-2015, 16:10   #20
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

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DH, I never permit use of locking hitches on cleats on my boat and I nearly fired a mate once for using one on a commercial tug. If you're ever girded by a tow many times the size of your towing vessel, I can almost guarantee you'll never use a locking hitch again for anything other than docking.


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Thanks, that's interesting and useful.

I was originally taught not to use a locking turn, but I had a retired pro mariner on my boat as crew for a month last year who chided me for not using one. A guy with great seamanship skills whom I respect very much. I thought I had been doing it wrong for all these years.

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Old 15-09-2015, 16:16   #21
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

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Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
DH, I never permit use of locking hitches on cleats on my boat and I nearly fired a mate once for using one on a commercial tug. If you're ever girded by a tow many times the size of your towing vessel, I can almost guarantee you'll never use a locking hitch again for anything other than docking.
True.

Tying up alongside is a different matter to towing or being towed.

Back to the OP.... I just don't like that style of cleat (or whatever)...its a case of miniaturising (sp) something that wasn't meant to be miniaturised.
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Old 15-09-2015, 16:22   #22
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

DH, I'm sure your friends experiences were perfectly legitimate from his experience and perspective.

I don't advocate against the use of locking hitches for others, I just don't permit them on my boat.

I know very small boat people in the 12-18 ft range love their locking hitches, I'm in no position to say they are wrong, I just don't personally like them based on my experiences.

The drawbacks are obvious- they can't be undone under load. If loads are likely to exceed what you can over power with one hand (leaving one hand to untie the knot), then I'd say its at least worth questioning if the desired effect of a hitch can be achieved in some other way.

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Old 03-10-2015, 11:33   #23
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Re: What Kind Of Knot To Use Around This "Cleat"?

Thanks everyone. Sorry for going quiet as the OP! I think we will try several Xs, and secure the tail over on one of the side cleats with a standard cleat hitch.

Scott


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