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Old 31-01-2018, 08:33   #76
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Re: What is Too Much Rode?

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Originally Posted by Jason Flare View Post
Maybe a basement in Missouri?
it has OUTSTANDING holding
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Old 31-01-2018, 08:48   #77
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What is Too Much Rode?

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Originally Posted by Dave_S View Post
Really - So jealous, how far from it are you ?


Not sure distance, I’m within 100 meters of the safety zone.
Pretty certain I can see the launch pad with my 14 power binocs.

In mud not that I have a lot of experience, but in the past I have had to let an anchor soak so to speak. If I back down hard in soft mud, I can drag the anchor all over the place, let it sit, and it holds. I can’t explain why, but the layer theory sounds plausible to me.
I have a Fortress and could have deployed it, but was using this as an experiment and a learning exercise, I don’t think I was ever in any real danger.
Truth is I’m so oversized with my anchor, I never thought it could drag in such light winds unless I dropped it on a beach blanket or something, hence the learning.

As far as if you can drag when you back down, then you need a bigger anchor, I’m already at a 40Kg Rocna, on a 38’ boat, how big would you suggest I go?

I did move and reset, as did my neighbor, neither of us seemed to drag after that, but the wind started going away last night, and is now thankfully pretty light, and is coming out of the East, so I’m sheltered now.

As far as moving, yes that would have been logical, trouble is nowhere else really to go, and I have my dinghy in the shop here, so I can’t really leave. If the Wx had been severe I would have bought a slip in a Marina here, assuming there is one open.
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Old 31-01-2018, 10:31   #78
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Re: What is Too Much Rode?

I had a couple of occasions when trying to anchor in the soft mud bottom of the creeks off Chesapeake Bay that my 88 lb Rocna would not set. It simply dragged. It felt as though the anchor was just skidding along the bottom. I would raise the anchor and redrop in virtually the same spot and then the anchor immediately set within 3 feet (and buried very deep upon backing down on it). I think if the Rocna lands in very soft mud with the rollbar facing down, then the rollbar doesn't have the leverage against the soft bottom to right the anchor to get the fluke pointed down. I subsequently made a point of slowly lowering the anchor making sure it was not spinning as it descended to help it land with the fluke down.
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Old 31-01-2018, 10:48   #79
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Re: What is Too Much Rode?

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Originally Posted by Cuvee View Post
I had a couple of occasions when trying to anchor in the soft mud bottom of the creeks off Chesapeake Bay that my 88 lb Rocna would not set. It simply dragged. It felt as though the anchor was just skidding along the bottom. I would raise the anchor and redrop in virtually the same spot and then the anchor immediately set within 3 feet (and buried very deep upon backing down on it). I think if the Rocna lands in very soft mud with the rollbar facing down, then the rollbar doesn't have the leverage against the soft bottom to right the anchor to get the fluke pointed down. I subsequently made a point of slowly lowering the anchor making sure it was not spinning as it descended to help it land with the fluke down.
Maybe you could trade your Rocna in for a good old CQR. I drop my CQR after I put my engine in neutral (and the boat is till moving), let out a lot of rode, and cleat it off.

Usually I'm through messing with the anchor at that point. I will monitor it for a while but usually no adjustment is made. So far, I've not had to back down on the anchor either. Actually, I've never backed down on an anchor
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Old 31-01-2018, 11:17   #80
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Re: What is Too Much Rode?

I left the CQR in the barn, I gave the Danforth away, but nobody wanted the CQR, and it was genuine not a copy.
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Old 31-01-2018, 11:18   #81
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What is Too Much Rode?

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Originally Posted by Cuvee View Post
I had a couple of occasions when trying to anchor in the soft mud bottom of the creeks off Chesapeake Bay that my 88 lb Rocna would not set. It simply dragged. It felt as though the anchor was just skidding along the bottom. I would raise the anchor and redrop in virtually the same spot and then the anchor immediately set within 3 feet (and buried very deep upon backing down on it). I think if the Rocna lands in very soft mud with the rollbar facing down, then the rollbar doesn't have the leverage against the soft bottom to right the anchor to get the fluke pointed down. I subsequently made a point of slowly lowering the anchor making sure it was not spinning as it descended to help it land with the fluke down.


That makes sense, and is pretty much what I’m getting, won’t set, pull it up, and redrop and it sets.
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Old 31-01-2018, 11:31   #82
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Re: What is Too Much Rode?

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I left the CQR in the barn, I gave the Danforth away, but nobody wanted the CQR, and it was genuine not a copy.
Really? That's too bad. Maybe you should have brought the CQR with you

Here's my boat anchored in mud with my worn CQR last May during a squall. I think the gusts were hitting near 40 knots at times. The anchor didn't drag at all and I used my normal drop and cleat method with the boat still moving. No back down

Pictures below shows I had out lots of rode. The weather was actually pretty nce when I anchored but thirty to forty five minutes later, that squall came in.



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Old 31-01-2018, 11:37   #83
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Re: What is Too Much Rode?

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I left the CQR in the barn, I gave the Danforth away, but nobody wanted the CQR, and it was genuine not a copy.
Every place I've been that has had a cruiser net there's been someone trying to sell a CQR without any cruisers willing to buy it. The funniest thing has been that sometimes the seller wants what amounts to 2/3 the price of a good modern anchor for their unwanted CQR. But in the end it gets dumped somewhere to get it off the boat.
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Old 31-01-2018, 11:39   #84
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Re: What is Too Much Rode?

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Now who's inventing ridiculous stuff?
Cruisers forum does often look like a contest to see Who can make the most ridiculous statement.

So let's look at these entrants....

Me: Letting out more chain will make you LESS likely to drag anchor.

You: Letting out more chain will make you MORE likely to drag anchor.

Well clearly there's no contest. I bow to your greatness.
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Old 31-01-2018, 11:48   #85
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Re: What is Too Much Rode?

Well let's not forget that the CQR and the Bruce were kings for many years before the new generation anchors arrived on the scene. Sailors then had far less weather knowledge coming from the internet and grib files, weather routers etc. than sailors do today but they still needed to be able to ride out strong winds at anchor and those two anchors were up to the task...most times. I started with the CQR and I found that it took some doing to get it to set at times but once dug in it held well. I ended up using an original Bruce that was oversized, it always set well but needed a lot more weight for holding in certain bottoms, I'd have no problem going back to those choices. The new generation anchors are better, no issue there, setting and holding is better. The one downside to the Rocna is the amount of the bottom that comes up with your anchor, I don't have a deck washdown and it can be a pain in heavy mud...can't win them all.
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Old 31-01-2018, 12:26   #86
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Re: What is Too Much Rode?

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The one downside to the Rocna is the amount of the bottom that comes up with your anchor, I don't have a deck washdown and it can be a pain in heavy mud...can't win them all.
I don't have a Rocna either, but it was an easy and pretty inexpensive boat project, about $140, to fix by installing a washdown pump. But even if I didn't have anew gen anchor I would want a washdown pump instead of bringing that baby poop mud onto the bow.
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Old 31-01-2018, 12:33   #87
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Re: What is Too Much Rode?

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Well let's not forget that the CQR and the Bruce were kings for many years before the new generation anchors arrived on the scene. Sailors then had far less weather knowledge coming from the internet and grib files, weather routers etc. than sailors do today but they still needed to be able to ride out strong winds at anchor and those two anchors were up to the task...most times. I started with the CQR and I found that it took some doing to get it to set at times but once dug in it held well. I ended up using an original Bruce that was oversized, it always set well but needed a lot more weight for holding in certain bottoms, I'd have no problem going back to those choices. The new generation anchors are better, no issue there, setting and holding is better. The one downside to the Rocna is the amount of the bottom that comes up with your anchor, I don't have a deck washdown and it can be a pain in heavy mud...can't win them all.
Even with the CQR, you can bring up lots of mud. We have that black gooey marsh mud in some places up here.

I've gotten so I don't mind it too much that my anchor and the whole forward part of the boat has that black crap on it for a few days.

It gives me a project in the days after I get back to the dock. I come into the slip bow first so whenever I get around to it I give it a wash......
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Old 31-01-2018, 12:45   #88
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Re: What is Too Much Rode?

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Look at all these posts over the history of cruisers forum, it's so overthought that the very basics are lost in the confusion.

Then complex anchoring strategies are added to the mix to confuse even more.

No boat should ever drag in 25-30 kts of wind. If you think you can stress your ground tackle by backing down on it , then it's too small.
If you think that you have to let your anchor settle before backing down on it, how is it ever going to work in an emergency.

Just back down on it and work up to full power while ensuring it's not dragging. If it's dragging, then pull it up and re anchor with more scope.....repeat until not dragging.... or change location.....after a few weeks you will always anchor with enough scope out and you will not be dragging in 25-30kts.

If you are still complaining that its not working and full revs causes dragging then get a bigger anchor and repeat.

It really is that simple.
I can only assume you have never anchored in really soupy mud. The kind you can shove a paddle in 2 feet with one hand and no strain at all. The kind that would go to your crotch if you stepped in it. These are bottoms where a initial pull might only hold 300-500 pounds with a 45-pound anchor. Very different rules than good mud or sand.

After a few hours you can probably back down, but not at first, unless you want to look like and out-of-towner and plow furrows in the bottom.

The bottom is everything. His anchor would hold tons in sand or firm mud. But he is where he wants to be.
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Old 31-01-2018, 12:47   #89
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Re: What is Too Much Rode?

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Even with the CQR, you can bring up lots of mud. We have that black gooey marsh mud in some places up here.

I've gotten so I don't mind it too much that my anchor and the whole forward part of the boat has that black crap on it for a few days.

It gives me a project in the days after I get back to the dock. I come into the slip bow first so whenever I get around to it I give it a wash......
I don't have a dock to go back to but I do have a wife that is a clean freak so it's bucket time for me. Every time I go through a clean up a start planning a deck wash at the bow but then I get a few weeks of clean sand and I put it out of mind. This has been going on for years
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Old 31-01-2018, 12:58   #90
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Re: What is Too Much Rode?

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I am a luddite.. 54 years ago I learnt that when anchoring lay 3.5 times the boat length plus depth for secure anchoring in good to fair weather (calm to 20kts).. increase with wind as needed and its kept me safe..
What I dread are the people who charge in.. stop n drop.. piling chain on top of their anchor as I know damn well if they're in front off me its time to string the fenders.
I pick my position, go slightly past then drop my hook as I start falling back letting the boat lay out the chain.. when 50% is out I hold till boat swings to the wind.. then once more fall off as another quarter goes out.. hold then repeat till required length is laid..
Result.. straight chain and sufficiently dug in anchor.. any further loads will dig her deeper.
Detest boats with rope rodes.. dangerous daysailing cheapskates spouting crap about loads in the bow.. its allowed for by any halfway decent designer.
Thats why some boats have anchor lockers and the crap have wells in the foredeck.
Okay.. Where my flak jacket..
Agree with Boaty about dropping the hook and letting out a fairly small amount of chain then letting the boat drift back till the chain gets a little tension at which point you let out more chain. Where I cruise the water is mostly clear and shallow so I can often see the anchor on the bottom when I first drop it. I will often let out chain three, four, or even five times before I attach the bridle/snubber. But I will usually wait maybe 5 minutes or so before doing that and check bearings to see how much or if the boat is drifting back or swinging. I use Dragqueen and leave the chart plotter on at max magnification to get some idea of how much the boat is moving as well. I always try for at least a 7:1 scope and have no issue with more.

There have been times when my Manson Supreme was dragging and I dropped my Bruce which stopped the boat in it's tracks. Both my primary and secondary are set up on the bow for almost instant deployment. I do get the emergency anchoring thing where you can't go through all these steps but am not sure it is applicable here. Often times in situations like that you simply do your best and pray.

As the OP's pix showed there was fouling when he brought the anchor up so it may well be that that was the cause of the problem.
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