What if we had "intent" in anchoring laws?

[Boatguy30]

Must have changed a bunch in last 6 months. There were quite a few derelict in Cocoa. I reckon the city their was actually letting things fester so they would have s stronger case to completely ban anchoring. They could easily clean up the area with existing laws.


Still not nearly as bad as what you described. I guess its lucky you blew all your money on that paint job so you can hold your nose so high! Wait till the marine patrol sees the inside!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Sandero

I can say that I've never encountered a harbor with anything close to what you describe. I've seen one or maybe two very shabby unseaworthy boats anchored in a few NE harbors. I have no idea if they are occupied or used. It's not a pretty sight nevertheless. If this sorts of thing became widespread I would be very disturbed and I imagine everyone that lived along or passed by the shore for whatever reason. This is not a solution for homelessness.

The North has a natural solution. Any homeless person who sets up shop on an anchored scrapheap, at most lasts into early fall.

After that:
- they move the boat south never to return.
- they move back ashore.
- they die from hypothermia because the scrapheap can't be heated.

The result is only people who can afford to keep a boat in functional condition or can afford winter living quarters can live on a boat in the North.

The further south you go, the more viable it is for homeless to get ahold of a floating scrapheap and make a go of it.

[2hullvenus]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

The North has a natural solution. Any homeless person who sets up shop on an anchored scrapheap, at most lasts into early fall.

After that:
- they move the boat south never to return.
- they move back ashore.
- they die from hypothermia because the scrapheap can't be heated.

The result is only people who can afford to keep a boat in functional condition or can afford winter living quarters can live on a boat in the North.

The further south you go, the more viable it is for homeless to get ahold of a floating scrapheap and make a go of it.

This is pretty much the difference.

[2hullvenus]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Must have changed a bunch in last 6 months. There were quite a few derelict in Cocoa. I reckon the city their was actually letting things fester so they would have s stronger case to completely ban anchoring. They could easily clean up the area with existing laws.


Still not nearly as bad as what you described. I guess its lucky you blew all your money on that paint job so you can hold your nose so high! Wait till the marine patrol sees the inside!

Painting a boat might have been all *your* money, but not mine and things are shaping up nicely with the interior matching the exterior.

You're such an angry, jealous little guy.

May want to get that evaluated by a professional.

[Boatguy30]

I just don't think "I'm a higher class of freeloader" is a good justification.

There was one proposal to declared all boats derelicts that can't be propelled as originally designed. IE all sailboats must have MASTS and SAILS. Inboard powerboats must have functioning inboards, etc.

Sounds good to me......

[Schooner Chandlery]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I've owned cars for near 30yrs. Never had to pass a safety inspection. I know some states have emissions inspections but that's not the same.

Not saying it's a competely bad solution but be careful of unintended consequences. A lot of boats in the 10-20yr range will suddenly drop in value as a the "rules" make it too expensive to keep the boat "safe" or since it's now reported officially, the insurance company doesn't want to touch your boat because it is "officially" unsafe.

Suddenly, it's no longer a suggestion, running rigging must be replaced at 10yrs. It must be done by a qualified rigger. All thru hulls removed and replaced every 5yrs. Again by a certified professional. That old atomic 4...yeah that has to go.

I think it's reasonable to keep any boat in a safe condition. The USCG inspection of all boat systems would probably be all that is required--and come to think of it, the federal regulations already say something along the lines of that a boat in use in navigable waters has to have a laundry list of safety equipment and be in safe operating condition. If states just required boaters to have proof of meeting the USCG requirements that we all have, as boaters, in the first place--that would go far.

A different requirement of keeping liability insurance on a vessel would also weed out the unsafe rafts that used to be boats that people are now camping on. It's pretty cheap (for example, our cheap little Rawson 30 was only a bit of $100/year for hull insurance and liability both together when we sold the boat in 2008) to have liability insurance on small boats if the person owning the boat has any boating experience at all.

I wonder what state you're in that doesn't require safety inspections of cars? The part where they check your windshield wipers, glazing, tires, suspension, brakes, turn signals, lights? That's the safety part. I've had cars in IN, FL, DC, CA, and TX and have had safety inspections in all but FL (can't recall if we had one there or not) so...?

Fair winds,

[Miniyot]

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

You're correct the term sterile is not right--but I do not know the correct term--perhaps clean or devoid of e-coli and other nasty stuff that fecal matter has in it. Up until 2014--when study was released showing urine has small amounts of bacteria (similar to what you have on your body--like, oh, skin--perhaps we shouldn't let people swim either? ) most people, including doctors thought urine was completely sterile. I was in a hurry writing that and I knew--this being the rough crowd (with a few smarty pants thrown in) that it is--someone would say no, no it's not. You should have also provided a reference link, you know that's always helpful when contradicting something someone has posted. Here's a nice link about the not-so-sterile urine.

Let's compromise and call the urine "clean"

Well, if urine is "clean" would you like to drink some of mine? OR someone elses....not yours.....? Maybe not actually swallow, but at least get some in your mouth? No? What about a "golden shower"?

My uneducated guess is, you would not take a $50.00 US bet on that....if that shower was from me.....

So....your point is?????

[INTP]

Google has 2.5 million hit on this. Not saying this is my "cup of tea".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine_therapy

[Schooner Chandlery]

Originally Posted by Miniyot

Well, if urine is "clean" would you like to drink some of mine? OR someone elses....not yours.....? Maybe not actually swallow, but at least get some in your mouth? No? What about a "golden shower"?

My uneducated guess is, you would not take a $50.00 US bet on that....if that shower was from me.....

So....your point is?????

What's YOUR point? you've taken something I said (many pages ago in this thread) out of context. What is YOUR point?

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by 2hullvenus

Sunny: The Marine Patrol here are

snip

I have lived in Florida since my Dad moved to Miami in 1954 after he graduated from med school. In all that time I have never seen any Marine Patrol.

Back in the day I remember the US Coast Guard pulled my Dad's sailboat off the Featherbed Banks when a line squall pushed us aground. Also had to deal with USCG returning from the Bahamas and going through customs. There were very few boats back then. Later on in the 1960s and 1970s what was the Dade County Sherif's office did some drug interdiction and you would see them on the water but I never had dealings with them, same goes for the many local cities in what is now Miami-Dade County. At times there have also been inter agency task forces. Lately the FWC are really the only LEOs I see on a regular basis unless I am out of sight of land.

The FDEP also has some enforcement powers but I have never seen them on the water.

The reason I posted this is because different organizations have different jurisdiction. I am not sure what you mean by the Marine Patrol. In some of your posts you have mentioned the Miami Beach Police but they have quite limited jurisdiction even in Miami-Dade County. Maybe you could clear up what your Marine Patrol really is.

[2hullvenus]

Certainly.

Middle patrol photo in the set of 3.

MBPD @ City of Miami Beach

Originally Posted by tomfl

I have lived in Florida since my Dad moved to Miami in 1954 after he graduated from med school. In all that time I have never seen any Marine Patrol.

Back in the day I remember the US Coast Guard pulled my Dad's sailboat off the Featherbed Banks when a line squall pushed us aground. Also had to deal with USCG returning from the Bahamas and going through customs. There were very few boats back then. Later on in the 1960s and 1970s what was the Dade County Sherif's office did some drug interdiction and you would see them on the water but I never had dealings with them, same goes for the many local cities in what is now Miami-Dade County. At times there have also been inter agency task forces. Lately the FWC are really the only LEOs I see on a regular basis unless I am out of sight of land.

The FDEP also has some enforcement powers but I have never seen them on the water.

The reason I posted this is because different organizations have different jurisdiction. I am not sure what you mean by the Marine Patrol. In some of your posts you have mentioned the Miami Beach Police but they have quite limited jurisdiction even in Miami-Dade County. Maybe you could clear up what your Marine Patrol really is.

[powsmias]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I've owned cars for near 30yrs. Never had to pass a safety inspection. I know some states have emissions inspections but that's not the same.

Not saying it's a competely bad solution but be careful of unintended consequences. A lot of boats in the 10-20yr range will suddenly drop in value as a the "rules" make it too expensive to keep the boat "safe" or since it's now reported officially, the insurance company doesn't want to touch your boat because it is "officially" unsafe.

Suddenly, it's no longer a suggestion, running rigging must be replaced at 10yrs. It must be done by a qualified rigger. All thru hulls removed and replaced every 5yrs. Again by a certified professional. That old atomic 4...yeah that has to go.

there's just nothing like more government... I like this thread. nice posts all cept the urine ones... wtf.. getting ready to move aboard probably not till spring now but still outta here. sarasota area i have family and looking at one of the anchorages there i noticed some liveaboards that were on what you would call derelict boats..seen them hanin out on dock at night and you could tell their lifestyle. not for me and told my nephew if you see me like that, put one right behind my ear. but, these people have no money and i cannot blame them for living that way, drive by madison square garden nyc and look at the homeless.. you wanna live on 35th st or longboat key? i got real good ground tackle and hope to feel confident about anywhere i anchor if i need to stay away from the crowd i don't anticipate any problems.. i could be wrong, totally new to this. but think goin out on the boat is gonna be better than goin out in jersey.. all the best you guys hope to see you all soon.

[Polux]

As Tomfl have been saying the problem relates with the number of sailboats (even if I don't know if they are too much) and the use of public waters for anchoring.

That is not a problem before they are crowded and no need to regulate that at that stage but when crowded the problem arises in what regards the right of appropriation from one sailor to public waters over the right of others to use that space too.

If we are talking about a permanent mooring the only solution that will award rights to the one that is there is a payed public service concession to someone that will do the management of the area, selling the right to moor and providing a buoy. That way the space continues to be public but it is rented by the state through a concessionaire.

That is also a solution we can find in Europe and in some places, the more touristic ones, those buoys can be pretty expensive. Croatia is the country that uses more that system that allows a much bigger number of boats on an anchorage than if they were on anchor.

I guess the problem was raised first here because there are more sailboats here than anywhere, particularly on the med.

[motion30]

Let. me throw something else into the mix...how about the Waterman with crab traps or lobster pots. these are so Numerous at times the area cannot be used for anchoring or even navigating
once again the question is if you use all the resources denied access to the man. and to me this is even worse as it is done for profit

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by motion30

Let. me throw something else into the mix...how about the Waterman with crab traps or lobster pots. these are so Numerous at times the area cannot be used for anchoring or even navigating
once again the question is if you use all the resources denied access to the man. and to me this is even worse as it is done for profit

I think it's the same basic principal as a mooring field or a marina. The waterman provides services to many users (ie: everyone eating the seafood they catch), so they tend to get priority since more people enjoy the benefit.

When they encroach on navigation channels and creates a safety risk is where it enters a gray area.