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Old 24-04-2013, 13:55   #1
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What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

Me and a friend intend for this summer to go by sail from Sweden to the British isles and probably the French Atlantic coast. We are not at all used to tide, since it does not occur in our home waters. There is a lot of reading about tide calculations, currents etc. However, what I am missing, is advice on tide and anchoring.
I learnt from some 90's book that France has strict rules on equipment. Is there anyone with updated knowledge on this matter? (Or Britain!!) Our boat is 29 ft/8,86 m, deplacement 2,8 tons. And perhaps even some handy tips for us dummies?

Kind regards
Elisabet
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Old 24-04-2013, 14:36   #2
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Re: What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

It's not so complicated.

For anchoring in tidal waters, I guess there are two really main things to keep in mind:

1. Calculate carefully the water under your keel at low water in your chosen spot. The object of this game is to avoid finding yourself aground at low tide. In the Bay of St. Malo, the tidal range at springs reaches 14 meters. If you make a mistake, you can find yourself in a lot of trouble. The easiest way to do it is just watch the chart or plotter to be sure that LAT is deeper than your keel. But the real low tide may be many meters above chart datum, especially at neaps, so you might not come up with the optimum anchoring spot that way.

2. Make sure you have plenty of anchor chain. I carry 100 meters, and this can be the minimum in some places in France at springs. That is because you need to have enough chain out to still have adequate scope at high tide. If the tidal range is 14 meters (that's worst case, obviously), and the depth at low tide is 3 meters, then you are in 17 meters at high tide. That will require around (depending on height of your bow roller) 100 meters of chain in order to maintain a 5:1 scope at high tide.

Those are the main things. Otherwise, it's much like anchoring anywhere. One more tip -- your shelter may disappear at high tide. Note the height of the terrain around you and whether or not it is awash or underwater at high tide. This might influence your choice of spots.

You might like the book Secret Anchorages of Brittany by Peter Cumberlidge. This is not only a great guide to different anchoring spots, but also a very good guide to anchoring in general in these waters.
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Old 24-04-2013, 15:12   #3
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Re: What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

Elisabet, welcome to CruisersForum and to France.

As Dockhead wrote, the tides and the tidal streams are very strong on the north coast of Brittany and in the Channel islands: up to 14m range and often more than 5kts tidal stream.

On the Atlantic coast, the tides are less strong: up to 6m range and generally less than 2kts stream.

Anyway, you need to be proficient in tide calculations (time and height). Many ports are accessible through locks, only 2 hours before and after high water. Other ports and many anchorages dry at low tide.

My boat is slightly larger than yours (30') and I carry 30m of chain and 45m of rope for the bow anchor, plus 40m of chain and 145m of rope in cockpit lockers. Until now, it was enough.

When sailing around W Brittany, exposed to N Atlantic swell, you have to pay attention to the tide tables even in deep water, because strong tidal streams running against the swell cause races and overfalls.

The French regulations for yachts are in a document called "Division 240". It is regularly updated. I think this is the current version: http://www.developpement-durable.gou...illet_2012.pdf

An English translation exists for an older version but it isn't accurate: http://www.developpement-durable.gou..._cle062945.pdf

Many people in France have only a very basic understanding of English: you should get a phrase book and make an effort to learn some French.

Alain
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Old 25-04-2013, 10:05   #4
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Re: What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

Thank you both for replying! It was informative, really.
One thing I am still wondering about, and that actually scares me, is the power of the tidal currents when at anchor. I suppose there is quite some risk for the boat to move in a direction that makes the anchorage less stabile? And with the relatively large depth at high tide we will need such a long chain that even though the anchor stays in position, the boat can drive away into.. something unexpected. Or some neighbouring boat can drive into us?
Do you generally use more than one anchor?

Our main anchor is a 16 kg (30 lb?) Delta and I thought 20 m chain and 45-50 m rope should be enough.
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Old 25-04-2013, 10:55   #5
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Re: What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elisabet View Post
I learnt from some 90's book that France has strict rules on equipment.
If by "rules" you mean legal requirements, those only apply to local (French) boats. The only equipment rules that apply to foreigners (like you and me!) are those of your own Flag (Registry).

Nonetheless what you need is a decent anchor and plenty of chain! - a combination of the two would suffice, but I am firmly in the camp of more chain is better!

First step is to make sure where you anchor will not dry out (if your boat cannot do that (which I suspect it cannot) - or even if it can the seabed is not suitable, i.e. full of rocks!)........Charts and Tide tables and calculator (and watch!).

Second step is that I would treat where you anchor the same as you would at home - except in a F6!......by that I mean to put a lot of thought into where you anchor, including from weather changes. And that may even include someone staying awake! or at least having regular visual check, particularly when the tide changes direction (but that only happens 4 times a day ). Also be aware that Harbours (and even Marinas) can also be tidal, with Marinas the water does not usually go out (although it can!) but the entrance times are restricted from a cill or a gate, so ya can't always "nip in" for shelter. I would suggest sticking to mainstream anchorages at least until you get comfortable with going "off piste" - often an indicator that an anchorage is not suitable is simply an absence of anyone else!, not always but often enough.

Third step is that I would not simply jump overboard for a swim (or even a row!) without knowing what the current is (eyesight works ok!) - both when you leave the boat and when you return (if much later).

In your shoes I would simply do a fair bit of planning ahead with the Charts, Tide Tables and Pilot Books - including for alternatives if the weather changes (at anchor or on passage).......personally I suspect that the most "fun" will be had with the tides on passage rather than at anchor, tides are great! when you get them under your keel , but dispiriting when you are punching into them (but sometimes that is just what you have to do as can't always get ideal tides on every part of a long passage).....be aware that bad weather / wind over tide / strong currents can change the nature of the experiance considerably, if you are going somewhere when the current is strong you will want to pick your weather with care.

Always prudent to include a fair bit of searoom when navigating in tidal waters (both to allow for the current and in case something goes wrong) and not go with the Chartplotter to the nearest inch (cm!) approach (the first time you see a lobster pot or 10 tons of navigation mark / bouy "accelerating" towards you will understand why ).

If you draft up a rough plan of where and when you intend to go a fair chance that folks will be able to help you with specifics, especially on places to see / visit. Never been into The Gulf of Morbihan myself, but my father wished he had "discovered" it 30 years earlier.......
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Old 25-04-2013, 11:09   #6
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Re: What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elisabet View Post
Thank you both for replying! It was informative, really.
One thing I am still wondering about, and that actually scares me, is the power of the tidal currents when at anchor. I suppose there is quite some risk for the boat to move in a direction that makes the anchorage less stabile? And with the relatively large depth at high tide we will need such a long chain that even though the anchor stays in position, the boat can drive away into.. something unexpected. Or some neighbouring boat can drive into us?
Do you generally use more than one anchor?

Our main anchor is a 16 kg (30 lb?) Delta and I thought 20 m chain and 45-50 m rope should be enough.

It's not so bad. You don't tend to "drive into" anyone, because everyone is swinging in the same direction. Provided you have roughly the same amount of rode out there are rarely any collisions.

But you will of course have a large swinging radius with a lot of rode out, so you have to be really carefully to study the area within the potential swinging radius of any potential anchoring spot to be sure that there are no hazards.
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Old 25-04-2013, 12:48   #7
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Re: What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

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Originally Posted by Hydra View Post
Elisabet, welcome to CruisersForum and to France.

My boat is slightly larger than yours (30') and I carry 30m of chain and 45m of rope for the bow anchor, plus 40m of chain and 145m of rope in cockpit lockers. Until now, it was enough.

Alain
Hi. I'm interested in finding out what you do if you want to use the extra chain rope in the locker.
Thanks
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Old 25-04-2013, 13:35   #8
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Re: What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

Quote:
I'm interested in finding out what you do if you want to use the extra chain rope in the locker.
On my bow anchor (10kg NZ-made Rocna), I have a greased and moused shackle between the chain and the rope. It can be undone easily. My chain is 8mm (5/16"), easy to handle, and I carry a few more shackles, some wire and grease, so it's easy to insert another segment.

In fact, that extra chain is connected to my storm anchor (15kg Spade) by another greased and moused shackle, with 45m of rope on the other side: this storm anchor is ready to go at a few minutes notice. It would take not much longer to unfasten the shackles.

Alain
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Old 25-04-2013, 13:46   #9
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Re: What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elisabet View Post
One thing I am still wondering about, and that actually scares me, is the power of the tidal currents when at anchor. I suppose there is quite some risk for the boat to move in a direction that makes the anchorage less stabile? And with the relatively large depth at high tide we will need such a long chain that even though the anchor stays in position, the boat can drive away into.. something unexpected. Or some neighbouring boat can drive into us?
Do you generally use more than one anchor?

Our main anchor is a 16 kg (30 lb?) Delta and I thought 20 m chain and 45-50 m rope should be enough.
Elisabet,
Your anchor should be OK but your rode is on the short side. As Dockhead wrote, you might have to anchor in more than 15m of water (eg. around Jersey and St Malo). Depending on the wind speed, you would need more than 5x scope, resulting in more than 80m total length.

Yes, it happens that a boat wanders around its anchor: you must select the anchoring point carefully. When anchoring for the night, I try to put my anchor at least 100m from any obstacle (not always possible).

I rarely use 2 anchors. It happens in tidal rivers, either when I want to keep my boat head to wind and waves at the change of tide, or when the river is deep and narrow.

In this area, people generally avoid using 2 anchors in open anchorages, because it would make a boat swing differently than others and it would take too long to retrieve in the middle of the night.

Alain
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Old 25-04-2013, 16:40   #10
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Re: What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

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If by "rules" you mean legal requirements, those only apply to local (French) boats. The only equipment rules that apply to foreigners (like you and me!) are those of your own Flag (Registry).
not true,im afraid, in national waters you are subject to the rules of the national country. in france's case the safety rules apply to all boats within its waters and it states that specifically. flag registration does not convey diplomatic immunity

the same is true in ireland for example , its lifejackets laws apply to all boats within its territorial waters.
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Old 26-04-2013, 02:16   #11
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Re: What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra View Post
On my bow anchor (10kg NZ-made Rocna), I have a greased and moused shackle between the chain and the rope. It can be undone easily. My chain is 8mm (5/16"), easy to handle, and I carry a few more shackles, some wire and grease, so it's easy to insert another segment.

In fact, that extra chain is connected to my storm anchor (15kg Spade) by another greased and moused shackle, with 45m of rope on the other side: this storm anchor is ready to go at a few minutes notice. It would take not much longer to unfasten the shackles.

Alain
Hi Alain
Many thanks for this.
Srah
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Old 26-04-2013, 02:25   #12
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Re: What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
not true,im afraid, in national waters you are subject to the rules of the national country. in france's case the safety rules apply to all boats within its waters and it states that specifically. flag registration does not convey diplomatic immunity

the same is true in ireland for example , its lifejackets laws apply to all boats within its territorial waters.
dave
You are probably right (you usually are! ) - but news to me .

Never even heard of it, let alone it ever being inspected for.........

....but I have my gallic shrug well practiced just in case .

In any event, rules or not - OP (and others, me included) do need decent anchoring equipment - and a bit of technique / care to ensure that are dug in before going for some Zzzzzz's.
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Old 26-04-2013, 04:03   #13
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Re: What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Elisabet.
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Old 26-04-2013, 04:50   #14
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Re: What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
not true,im afraid, in national waters you are subject to the rules of the national country. in france's case the safety rules apply to all boats within its waters and it states that specifically. flag registration does not convey diplomatic immunity

the same is true in ireland for example , its lifejackets laws apply to all boats within its territorial waters.
dave
Correct.

The RYA site has everything you need to know about cruising in France, from the point of view of British sailors who are accustomed to no rules at all, practically.

In France, the main thing you have to be careful of is to have up to date flares (they take a dim view of sailing with expired ones), and have your documents in order. This last causes a lot of friction with British sailors because many of them haven't registered their boats at all -- in the UK you are not even required to register a boat or have even a single scrap of paper. Some of them insist that if their flag state don't require it, then the French have no right to demand it. They lose this argument and have to pay fines if caught.

There are other requirements; check the RYA page.
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Old 26-04-2013, 05:31   #15
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Re: What about anchoring on the French Atlantic coast?

I've cruised up and down the Channel and the Brittany coast for more years than I care to admit! I've found 50m of chain adequate most of the time. Occasionally you may need more. This is where a goodly length of kedge line comes in handy.

100m of chain is an awful lot of weight in the bows to carry about all the time. In two Atlantic circuits, the most chain I've veered was 40m in the Isles de Saintes and when riding out Hurricane Irene in the back harbour at Lunenberg.

My record anchoring depth was in 37m of water in the middle of the English Channel. No wind and we were racing at the time and ended up tieing practically every piece of line we had to get enough rode. The last rope over the side was the main halyard tail. We held whilst our arch rivals dissapeared on the tide.
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