Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-11-2009, 01:40   #16
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
My recomendations:

15ft of chain is too short. At least double it, and preferably 60 ft. This will be mcuh more effective at providing the confidence that you will stay in one spot!

When you set the GPS alarm, make sure that the coordinates are based on the anchor position rather than the vessel position once full anchored, otherwise it is likely that on tide change the alarm will go off!

A single anchor is better than two unless you need to restict you movement at tide change because everyone else has done the same. The crossing over of the rode will cause chafe, and could lead to real problems.

I do not like tandem anchors (one secured to the other) if the normal anchor is not good enough, get a better/bigger single anchor. (and/or more chain). In tandem anchoring, if the inner anchor starts to drag, it will create a furrow on the bottom that will make the second anchor also lose its grip. For it to have any possibility of success, the two anchors would need to have the same design characteristics so that they dig in at the same rate.
__________________

__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2009, 02:57   #17
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy and Mara View Post
Andy went to bed and I discovered computer Mah Jongg and kept anchor watch all night, taking bearings every 15-20 minutes.
Mara thats one of the funniest things I have ever read. I just burst out laughing loudly.... and Nicolle looked at me.... I didn't give an explanation as I value my life.... She is prone to do the same, but hasnt found computer Mah Jongg yet



Anchoring does get better I like that new anchoring platform!
We just use 1 anchor and a little over 300 feet of chain
Our ratios are a bit over the top too. Where we have space, like now, we are in 4.2 meters and let out 40 meters of chain. So about 10:1.

We often let out more chain ratio in shallower depths so if it was 10 meters here we would probably only have out 50 meters of chain....


All the best at Mah Jongg....



Mark
__________________

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2009, 04:34   #18
Registered User
 
Hampus's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sweden
Boat: Between boats
Posts: 463
Images: 6
Send a message via MSN to Hampus
Maybe someone wrote it already, too lazy to read all the posts but regarding anchor alarms; most new plotters have an alarm output. In some cases it's NMEA output, in some cases it's a relay output. If it's a relay you'll be able to hook it up to a siren inside the boat and you'll wake up for sure if the anchor alarm goes off. You can do it with NMEA output as well, but it requires a few special gadgets.
__________________
http://adventureswithsyingeborg.blogspot.com/
On the way back to Sweden.
Hampus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2009, 04:43   #19
Ram
Registered User
 
Ram's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cruising Greece
Boat: Cat in the med & Trawler in Florida
Posts: 2,298
Images: 27
MarkJ I think you got it right! - 300 feet of chain is about right, I have only 150 feet of chain (backed up by 400 feet of 3/4 -3 strand nylon )and this amount of chain is not enough - Im replacing the chain next year and will go to a half barrel 275 feet - (Anyone one to split a barrel of 5.16 g 40?)

the ground tackel is likes brakes on a car- one of the most important- yet unromantic part of your vessel!

I would say get a lot more chain here and then and only then will you be able to sleep at night!
__________________
Ram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2009, 04:47   #20
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
Hud3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,929
Images: 49
I'm on the "one anchor" school, the exception being when anchored in a reversing tidal situation.

If you feel you need two anchors, a way to solve the problem of the two rodes wrapping around themselves is to attach a snatch block to your primary rode, lead the secondary through it, and then let out enough of the primary to take the snatch block 5-10 feet under the surface. That way, even if you get some wrap, releasing the snatch block easily undoes it.
__________________
Hud
Hud3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2009, 06:14   #21
Registered User
 
Karletto's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Slovenia not Slovakia; gulf of Triest
Boat: owned a 6m single hull sailing boat, a HIRONDELL 23 cat and chartered modern +8m ELAN boats
Posts: 79
few tips ->
__________________
Rosso di sera, bel tempo si spera. Rosso di mattina, mal tempo si avvicina
Karletto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 12:08   #22
Registered User
 
Andy and Mara's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Variable
Boat: Cal 2-29 - Sofia Terese
Posts: 21
Thanks - you guys are the BEST!

Thanks so much for your replies - we feel much better now!

We've decided just to stay put and ride out the weather where we are. There's no possible way we are prepared to go out in 9'-11' seas and 30+ knot winds! We've been anchored now for about 72 hours and have not moved yet, even though we've swung around in every conceivable direction with the wind and tide, so I think it's probably best just to leave well enough alone.

We are in full agreement regarding the all-chain rode! However, it's not in our budget just yet; we had to re-power and that finished off our refit budget/cruising kitty. Once we find work it'll be one of the first things we do. In the meantime we've added chafe gear and will be adding swivels here shortly.

The only reason we have out two anchors is because everyone else in the anchorage does. It's our understanding that if you're first into an anchorage then the method of anchoring is your prerogative, but coming into an existing anchorage you must anchor the way everyone else is already anchored so you all swing the same way. (Trust me, I'd rather have put out one anchor and been done with it.) Is this not right?

We have noticed that we don't sail at anchor with two anchors out, which is nice. With one anchor down she hunts about 45-60 in either direction. At some point we'll attach some kind of drogue to the rode for that.

We have a handheld GPS with an anchor drag alarm, but we're a bit confused as to how we ought to set it. We've got out about 90' of scope on each anchor right now but even if we were to set the alarm at, say, 180' we would hit a boat long before the alarm went off! I must be missing something.

Karletto, thanks for the reminder about the ignition - we hadn't thought of that. And thankfully I think we did a little better than Captain Ron (though that's not hard to do)!

Thanks again to all! You guys are confidence-boosting lifesavers!
__________________
Andy and Mara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 13:24   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Boat: Charter
Posts: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Where we have space, like now, we are in 4.2 meters and let out 40 meters of chain. So about 10:1.
Shouldn't you include freeboard when calculating scope?
__________________
sec906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 14:11   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Blue Hill, Maine
Boat: 32' Bob Baker/Joel White Cutter (One-off wood)
Posts: 161
Here is an interesting calculator for the effects of nylon line/chain of various lengths as rode, etc.

Tuning an Anchor Rode

I found it helpful for evaluating my rode plans even if practice probably does vary from theory. If you really want to sleep well at night, you could put this on your reading list:

Amazon.com: The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring (9780870335396): Earl R. Hinz: Books

I know an all-chain rode is very popular these days, but I think the benefit of the elasticity of the nylon portion of the rode and the possibility of putting some of that extra weight in the anchor itself are good considerations, too.

Also, there are old-fashioned, budget anchor alarms that usually consist of sending a line down to the bottom with something on it (use your lead line, if you have one ) and attaching it to a pot that will fall when pulled or a bell or whatever. It will of course wake you up more often than you actually drag and you need to rig it so you don't lose your pot, etc. overboard. Might take some practice to get a perfect setup here. Still, an option for the GPS alarm-less.
__________________
marujo.sortudo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 18:57   #25
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
Well not being a cruiser I can only give you my opinion for what it is..Local gunk-holing...I don't pay any attention to how others anchor unless its a tight shore tie scenario..in other words if we all have swing room I will anchor how I want to anchor not be "Shown" how to anchor....but if two out stops your sailing its worth it in my opinion...I like a tiny little bit of anchor sailing myself it changes the scenery and gives a better sun tan.
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 21:43   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Great Neck, N.Y.
Boat: Lancer 30, Little Jumps
Posts: 541
Andy and Mara, Be careful, not all swivels are created equal.
I do not use one for fear of creating a weak link, stay away from made in China comes to mind. Maybe someone, more knowledgeable than I on the subject, would suggest a brand or
care to address?
Great anchor platform you should be proud. Just a note of caution on your wiring to running lights... run through pulpit if possible...looks like could be exposed to/knicked by chain.
Temporary solution might be able to protect lower half by installing section of clear hose, split long ways over wire and pulpit and held with cable ties. Hope you don't mind suggestion.
__________________
hugosalt
s/v Little Jumps
Lancer 30
hugosalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 23:40   #27
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by sec906 View Post
Shouldn't you include freeboard when calculating scope?
Yes,, our first 10 meter mark is actually at 12 meters! Thats the distance btween the roller and the water.

Its easier to say let out 10 meters than let out 12 m. So before we were doing it we were always stuffing up!

The other thing thats good is to mark off 1 meter back from the bow roller so when the helm yells: "let out 2 more meters" it is actually 2 not 1, not 3!


Mark
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 01:08   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Boat: Charter
Posts: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Yes,, our first 10 meter mark is actually at 12 meters! Thats the distance btween the roller and the water.

Mark
Maybe I'm not understanding something here, but for 7-1 scope with a 2-meter freeboard, I calculate that you'd need to play out 14 meters of rode to compensate for the freeboard, not just 2. Am I wrong?
__________________
sec906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 01:42   #29
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
He is.....He meant 6 additional feet ( 2 meters ) to the first mark on the chain to compensate for the freeboard....but still calling it the 10 meter mark for reference purposes.
__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 01:45   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Boat: Charter
Posts: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
He is.....He meant 6 additional feet ( 2 meters ) to the first mark on the chain to compensate for the freeboard....but still calling it the 10 meter mark for reference purposes.
Read again: he calculates 2 meters, I calculate 14 meters. So who's right and why?
__________________

__________________
sec906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchoring, florida, gulf coast, scope, sleep

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.