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Old 01-04-2015, 08:42   #61
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re: Visibility While at Anchor

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
emergency strobe as abchornlight can find interesting midnight visitors. they used for emergencies.
try a nice BRIGHT 360 here. works great.
also add cockpit lighting so you are distinguishable from ambient house and business lighting on the surroundng hillsides.
Yep, a strobe is illegal for non emergencies. I suppose some folks don't care about that though.

Once a legal anchor light has been installed and used, lighting the boat so it looks like a boat could be a good idea.

of course nothing will protect you from the drunk, drugged or auto pilot mentioned above. That applies in the daytime as well.
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Old 01-04-2015, 09:04   #62
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re: Visibility While at Anchor

point of info.....this thread USED to be speeled correctly but it seems the same grammar nazis who bag on my disibility in tupoing have pressured mods into incorrectly changing speeling of a simple word.
V I S I B I L I T Y a correct.
v i s A b i l i t y is INcorrect.
back to the topic of VISIBILITY
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Old 01-04-2015, 09:24   #63
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re: Visibility While at Anchor

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Originally Posted by Wrong View Post
While the masthead anchor light may be viewed by some as problematic because it is not at eye level, it's hard to accept the suggestion sailors entering an anchorage won't be looking for them. I for one am thankful when approaching an anchorage for the first time masthead lights are displayed. Lights at eye level will not be visible until very near the anchorage. Not so with the masthead lights.

Anyone using flood lights that adversely affect an approaching sailor's ability to see is not going to make many friends!
What you need to understand is the little anchor light high up blends in with 100's/1000's of shore lights.
Also, the real problem isn't sailors entering the anchorage, but fast moving fishing, power or even dingys at night.
We've pretty much beat this one to death, all you need is a light hung from the boom to illuminate the cockpit etc. Other than that, not a lot to be gained.... unless you want the xmas light setup.
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Old 01-04-2015, 09:37   #64
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re: Visibility While at Anchor

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
and....30 boats in the same anchorage all with strobe lights.....?
Crazy! and a strobe is considered a distress light too as used on a MOB danbuoy.

WE live overlooking an ICW passage anchorage and are currently seeing ( or not) 3 or 4 boats nightly on their way up/down. The other side of the anchorage has some bright lights, from homes or various high objects, some are strobes too. we are on the glidepath for both Daytona Beach International and Orlando airports.

Last night there were 4 boats, 3 were in the channel, one just outside it. There is also a motoryacht there 24/7 that is out of the channel and does show an anchor light on the Flybridge that is pretty visible even against the shore lights behind it. of the other three (sailboats), one had a masthead light that looked more like part of a building behind it ( I only identified with binos) one had no lights at all and the other had an array of solar garden lights, one per stanchion but all of which went dark by midnight.

WE also see boats with such bright LED masthead lights that they look like aircraft landing lights and there are many such due to our proximity to the airport, not to mention the Embery Riddle Aero university flight training field that do lots of night flying practice. We even see boats with all their regular Port starboard and stern lights left on all night. Twice in the last month I have seen large barges with a pusher tug pass by here at around 3 a.m so there is traffic tht could seriously spoil the day of an invisible craft anchored in the channel.

WE have anoriginal fit incandescent masthead anchor light but prefer to use a Davies auto on/off Led hanging anchor lamp hung from the jib sheets in the foretriangle area and which is visible for the legally required distance as well as also illuminating the foredeck area, very visible to all at lower eye level. We have also an LED hanging lamp (old fashioned hurricane oil lamp copy) that will run several nights on a set of it's self contained batteries, this is useful to light our cockpit area as well as aiding our visibility to new arrivals. If really concerned I would leave this light on all night as well. I tried a solar garden light on our balcony over several months but even mid summer it never lasted all night, despite maximum charge time and coupled with the shortest dark time

BTW I don't consider it necessary to show an anchor light on a buoy in a designated mooring field.

Yet to Be fitted I have some Solas reflective tape bought on sale for pennies and will add some strips of it to the mast and boom when I get round to it, but this is more for my own use when returning in the dinghy at night, I may also add some of this to the dinghy as well.
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:02   #65
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re: Visibility While at Anchor

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
What you need to understand is the little anchor light high up blends in with 100's/1000's of shore lights.
Also, the real problem isn't sailors entering the anchorage, but fast moving fishing, power or even dingys at night.
We've pretty much beat this one to death, all you need is a light hung from the boom to illuminate the cockpit etc. Other than that, not a lot to be gained.... unless you want the xmas light setup.
WHAT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND

I am speaking for myself, not telling others how to light their boat. In fact, if you go back through my posts you'll see - or maybe not - where I say lighting on a boat is not the only consideration. Traffic patterns and background lighting need to be considered in choosing an anchorage.

Furthermore;

WHAT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND,

I am thankful when approaching remote anchorages there are masthead lights visible from enough distance to help in orienting my approach and entrance to the anchorage. I have been under the impression you have some extensive cruising experience and should understand the concept. But, maybe not. Nice boat though...
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:10   #66
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re: Visibility While at Anchor

One obviously cannot use red or green and the proliferation of white lights could well stop ones boat from standing out in an anchorage.

I looked up the "brightest" colors (for humans) and came up with this:

The back of our eye, called the "retina" detects light and allows us to "see". The retina is made of of 2 types of structures, cones and rods.

But you said our rods are most sensitive to Cyan light! Can't I use a Cyan LED light to look around and still preserve my night vision?
Yes, our rods are most sensitive to 500nm (cyan/turquoise) light. Remember though, that the rods are very, very, very sensitive to intensity. A bright light of any color (except red) will ruin your night adapted vision. So cyan is actually the WORST to use when you need a brighter light to see the environment around you since this light wavelength is what the rods pick up best. Cyan light has to be kept very, very dim to keep it from ruining night adapted vision.




Cyan is a greenish-blue color and is one of the three primary colors of the subtractive CMYK color model. On the color wheels of the RGB and CMYK color models, it is located midway between blue and green, making it the complementary color of red. Wikipedia








Purkinje shift, or dark adaptation is the tendency for the peak luminance sensitivity of the human eye to shift toward the blue end of the color spectrum at low illumination levels.


I hope there is an ophthalmologist/researcher who can verify/correct these!




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Old 01-04-2015, 10:13   #67
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re: Visibility While at Anchor

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Originally Posted by Robin3 View Post
........Last night there were 4 boats, 3 were in the channel, one just outside it. There is also a motoryacht there 24/7 that is out of the channel and does show an anchor light on the Flybridge that is pretty visible even against the shore lights behind it. of the other three (sailboats), one had a masthead light that looked more like part of a building behind it ( I only identified with binos) one had no lights at all and the other had an array of solar garden lights, one per stanchion but all of which went dark by midnight............. .
People have learned that the regulations are not usually enforced so they don't need to abide by them. Or they make up their own rules (like the strobe lights). Down stream of my marina are a few boats with either no anchor lights or solar garden lights that are out by midnight. It's been like this for a couple of years. I suppose if there's nobody on the boat there's nobody to hand a ticket to.
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:15   #68
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re: Visibility While at Anchor

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
point of info.....this thread USED to be speeled correctly but it seems the same grammar nazis who bag on my disibility in tupoing have pressured mods into incorrectly changing speeling of a simple word.
V I S I B I L I T Y a correct.
v i s A b i l i t y is INcorrect.
back to the topic of VISIBILITY


I am no grammar or spelling pedant and I make mistakes too.

My intent is not to point out that someone is wrong, but rather to help others when searching the forum.

But since I was the one to suggest changing the title of the thread to correct the spelling to "Visibility," I will explain my reason.

First, typos and misspelled words in text messages on a forum don't bother me. I know this is an international forum (so English may be used as a second language by some) and my iPad's auto feature sometimes selects words that are not my choice, and those remain in my post if I don't notice them.

I suggest that the titles of the threads are where the proper spelling of key words is most important.

Reason? I think it helps when people do a search for key words to find thread topics that they want to read.
______________

Some words are called "devil words" because they are often misspelled and/or they are hard to remember which spelling is correct for that word, even if one is generally a good speller. Even native speakers of English will make mistakes or not know when to use "-ability" or "-ibility" without memorizing the specific words.

In the case of the word "visibility" I offer this tip or rhyme I made up to help others remember:

I use an eye to see, and use an "i" in "visibility."


Since visibility has to do with using an eye, it is a good key to remembering the proper use of letter "i" in the word visibility because the word "eye" and the letter "i" sound alike, so the use of "i" is easy to remember. EYE = I

Of course this also works for the word "visible." I use an eye to see what is visible, so I will use an "i" in the word "visible."

I hope this helps someone.
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:17   #69
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re: Visibility While at Anchor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrong View Post
WHAT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND

I am speaking for myself, not telling others how to light their boat. In fact, if you go back through my posts you'll see - or maybe not - where I say lighting on a boat is not the only consideration. Traffic patterns and background lighting need to be considered in choosing an anchorage.

Furthermore;

WHAT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND,

I am thankful when approaching remote anchorages there are masthead lights visible from enough distance to help in orienting my approach and entrance to the anchorage. I have been under the impression you have some extensive cruising experience and should understand the concept. But, maybe not. Nice boat though...
rodlmffao.

i SO love rigidity
enter zihuatenejo or ANY anchorage with residences and businesses on hillsides surrounding them in darkness.
THEN speak these words....you will have changed your words.
masthead lights were INVISIBLE against the backdrop.
cockpit lights were semi visible but not seen until way too close.
i refuse to use madthead lights. with good reason.

i use appropriately placed freeking BRIGHT used to be perko oil lamp with fresnel lense to intensify my light. this light also lights my ENTIRE deck and the water surrounding it.
more visible than any other system i have encountered in four years out here cruising.
i am impressed with my crew's and my ingenuity and productivity.
i am pleased with these results.
i am not only visible, i am identifiable as a sailboat, against ANY backdrop.
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:31   #70
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re: Visibility While at Anchor

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Yep, a strobe is illegal for non emergencies. I suppose some folks don't care about that though.

Once a legal anchor light has been installed and used, lighting the boat so it looks like a boat could be a good idea.

of course nothing will protect you from the drunk, drugged or auto pilot mentioned above. That applies in the daytime as well.


I don't think using a strobe or flashing light of any kind or colored lights (e.g. bicycle light) is a good solution, because the use of strobes or flashing lights could be mistaken for other appropriate purposes (emergency signal or navigation beacon or navigation lights).

Obviously from what others here have written is "common practice" in some countries, or by individuals. But, I think the better solution to use immediately recognizable (not confusing) lights, whenever possible.
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:47   #71
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re: Visibility While at Anchor

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
rodlmffao.

i SO love rigidity
enter zihuatenejo or ANY anchorage with residences and businesses on hillsides surrounding them in darkness.
THEN speak these words....you will have changed your words.
masthead lights were INVISIBLE against the backdrop.
cockpit lights were semi visible but not seen until way too close.
i refuse to use madthead lights. with good reason.

i use appropriately placed freeking BRIGHT used to be perko oil lamp with fresnel lense to intensify my light. this light also lights my ENTIRE deck and the water surrounding it.
more visible than any other system i have encountered in four years out here cruising.
i am impressed with my crew's and my ingenuity and productivity.
i am pleased with these results.
i am not only visible, i am identifiable as a sailboat, against ANY backdrop.
Go Zeehag go!

So, when's the last time you approached A REMOTE ANCHORAGE, as in far away from any significant source of lighting ashore? In an area possibly littered with reefs, in foul weather and a narrow approach. One, maybe two boats already in the anchorage. Possibly no visible markers or other guides leading to the anchorage are available.

The only other prudent option would be to heave to and enter the anchorage in daylight.

You people who don't know the difference really ought to get out more.
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Old 01-04-2015, 11:01   #72
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re: Visibility While at Anchor

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Not for the OP, but for those jerks who don't show proper lights.


1. Use an anchor light that meets col regs. If you get whacked by someone who claims to be keeping a proper watch, and you don't have lights on per regs, guess who is at fault? (Hint: You, you idiot!)


If someone gets injured or worse, you could lose everything you own. Over the cost of a proper light or the power it draws? You're joking right?


When we quietly slip into an anchorage after dark, any boat that isn't lit up before, sure is during our entrance, with 2 x 1 MCP spotlights trained on there vessels, hoping to wake the occupants to REMIND them to turn on their anchor light.


I don't care if you're in a marked anchorage, or your inside 100 boats further out in the harbour than you, at least show a legal anchor light.


2. Cheap solar lights instead of legal anchor lights. Are you kidding me? So you only anchor evenings after bright sunny days until 12 am when your lights start dimming? Don't care if you get whacked and injure others after dull days or later in the evening after the garden light dims or goes out completely?


Some people are unsafe at any speed, even anchored.


3. Additional lighting to minimum legal requirements. Sure, can't hurt. But garden lights? They are merely for decoration. IMHO dollar store lights make your yacht look like, well, it came from a dollar store. If you are serious about lighting up your boat at anchor to protect you, your vessel, and others, and are going to go to the effort to purchase and install something, then at least use something that stands a chance of meeting intended purpose (shining reasonably bright all night). If you have solar panels, then any LED you permanently install, is a solar light. And many solar charge controllers have a dusk to dawn load output built in, that you can use to feed your anchor switch, so all anchor lighting is controlled.


Rod Brandon
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I'm not sure anyone has advocating using any kind of lighting instead of the legal anchor light, but rather, in addition to.

The problem, as discussed above, is that the legal anchor light is too high to be visible from close distances. It's perfectly legal to add other lights, which are not navigational lights, just to add visibility, and I think the consensus is that it's a good idea.
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Old 01-04-2015, 11:15   #73
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Re: Visability while at anchor

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
rodlmffao.

...
enter zihuatenejo or ANY anchorage with residences and businesses on hillsides surrounding them in darkness.
THEN speak these words....you will have changed your words.
masthead lights were INVISIBLE against the backdrop.
cockpit lights were semi visible but not seen until way too close.
i refuse to use madthead lights. with good reason.

i use appropriately placed freeking BRIGHT used to be perko oil lamp with fresnel lense to intensify my light. this light also lights my ENTIRE deck and the water surrounding it.
more visible than any other system i have encountered in four years out here cruising.
i am impressed with my crew's and my ingenuity and productivity.
i am pleased with these results.
i am not only visible, i am identifiable as a sailboat, against ANY backdrop.
I have had the experience of being camouflaged by background lighting before as well. It is one of the reasons we upgraded our 2 deck lights (one on each mast of our ketch) with [bright] LED bulbs.

In situations where background lighting [or dense fog] may camouflage us on the water, we also leave our LED deck lights on [in addition to our masthead LED anchor light, and 2 MegaBright anchor lights- bow and stern- I mentioned in a previous post on this thread.]

You can't help but see us when the deck lights are on...

Something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is 'electronic' visibility; we always leave our [Class B] AIS on when anchored, broadcasting our position and status of being anchored. Our Vesper unit also has a great anchor alarm and uses very little current, so it is a win-win, especially where big boat traffic is possible.

This is a good discussion and reminds us all how easy it is to be 'legal' and through creativity and ingenuity improve our safety.

In the northern regions I have sailed the last 30 years, we sometimes forget about these issues since during the summer months it doesn't get dark enough to need lights...

Cheers everyone!
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Old 01-04-2015, 11:48   #74
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Re: Visibility While at Anchor

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I'm not sure anyone has advocating using any kind of lighting instead of the legal anchor light, but rather, in addition to.

The problem, as discussed above, is that the legal anchor light is too high to be visible from close distances. It's perfectly legal to add other lights, which are not navigational lights, just to add visibility, and I think the consensus is that it's a good idea.
There is actually no rule that says an anchor light has to be at the masthead or even in the fore part of the vessel, only that it is an all round light and if more than one then the forward one needs to be higher .


Vessel at anchor
Length 50m or more: two all-round lights,
the forward one higher than the aft one.
Length under 50m: second (lower) light
at stern is optional.like a cockpit hung light for example.
A vessel of 100m or more length shall
also illuminate her decks with lights.


I doubt I will ever own a vessel>50m even if I win the lottery.

In practice too, most of us will anchor to shelter from the wind and most likely this will mean our bow is pointing ashore and the first part of our boat to be seen by a new arrival would be the stern. To me that means that a light hung (say from the boom on a sailboat) in the cockpit area at or around the eye level of another vessel makes sense as well as being useful for the crew relaxing there with a sundowner. Our motoryacht when we had it had a covered aft deck hard top with LED ceiling lighting.


PS added: I see no obligation, legal or moral to provide guidance lighting to others arriving, nor do I expect others to do so for me, that is why we have radar and a very powerful handheld searchlight, but that said I would not approach an unknown anchorage in bad conditions or bad visibility and especially in poorly charted waters with dangers close by..




















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Old 01-04-2015, 12:16   #75
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Re: Visibility While at Anchor

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Originally Posted by Robin3 View Post
There is actually no rule that says an anchor light has to be at the masthead or even in the fore part of the vessel, only that it is an all round light and if more than one then the forward one needs to be higher .
Quote:
Our motoryacht when we had it had a covered aft deck hard top with LED ceiling lighting.
So, what boat do you own now?

Quote:
PS added: I see no obligation, legal or moral to provide guidance lighting to others arriving, nor do I expect others to do so for me, that is why we have radar and a very powerful handheld searchlight,...
Considering the "be nice rule" here at C.F., I'll moderate my response to your outlandish, unbelievably selfish comment to simply say you reveal a profound lack of understanding of the meaning of good seamanship and common courtesy...

Quote:
...but that said I would not approach an unknown anchorage in bad conditions or bad visibility and especially in poorly charted waters with dangers close by..
Never say never...

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