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Old 02-12-2015, 08:53   #46
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Steve

Thank you . This is a time-consuming task and you're to be commended for doing it.

We all have our favorites, persoanlly i have a Mantus and would love to see you test it.

Had Bruce copy (better than the one you had) and found it had difficulty setting properly.
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Old 02-12-2015, 11:37   #47
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Thanks, Cartsen.


Here is a synopsis of the tests videos that I have posted thus far:

Video #1 - 45 lb. Manson Supreme. 3.3 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - rotated and reset immediately.

Video #2 - 45 lb. Manson Supreme. 2.8 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 deg - rotated then released and did not re-set.

Video #3 - 45 lb. Manson Supreme Rock Slot. 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - rotated then reset immediately. No action of rock slot.

Video #4 - 25 lb. Danforth COPY. 3.8 to 1 and 5 to 1 scope. Failed to initially set.

Video #5 - 33 lb. GENUINE Bruce. 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - rotated then reset immediately.

Video #6 - 65 lb. Forfjord. 3.8 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - rotated then reset immediately.

Video #7 - 10 lb. Fortress FX16. 3.9 to scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - rotated then reset immediately.

Video #8 - 10 lb. Fortress FX16 emergency stop. 3 to 1 scope. Initial set (boat moving at 3.6 knots) - immediate.

Video #9 - 45 lb. Manson Supreme. 2.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - released and reset after long drag.

Video #10 - 45 lb. (50?) CQR COPY(?). 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set after long drag on side. 180 degree - released and re-set after long drag.

Video #11 - 45 lb. (50?) CQR COPY(?). 2.5 to 1 scope. Initial set after an upright drag. 180 degree - released and failed to fully re-set.

Video #12 - 44 lb. Spade. 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - rotated/released and re-set rapidly.

Video #13 - 44 lb. Spade. 2.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - released and re-set rapidly.

Video #14 - 33 lb. Bruce COPY. 3.5 to 1 scope. Failed to initially set.

Video #15 - 20 lb. GENUINE Danforth. 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - released and reset after long drag.

Video #16 - 12 lb. Northill. 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate (boat was able to drag set anchor). 180 degree - rotated then re-set (boat was able to drag set anchor).

Video #17 - 33 lb. GENUINE Bruce. 2.5 to 1 scope. Initial set after an upright drag. 180 degree - released and re-set after dragging.

Video #18 - 10 lb. fortress FX16. 2.5 to 1 scope. Initial set after long drag. 180 degree - released and then re-set after dragging

Video #19 - NO TEST. Commentary only.

Video #20 - 45 lb. Manson Supreme Rock Slot (sand/gravel). 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set after dragging due to rock slot engagement. 180 degree - released due to rock slot. Failed to re-set.

Video #21 - 45 lb. Manson Supreme (sand/gravel). 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - very rapid. 180 degree - rotated (multiple times) then re-set immediately.

Video #21 - 44lb. Spade (sand/gravel). 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - rotated and remained completely set.

Video #22 - 40 lb. Luke COPY. 3.5 to 1 scope. Failed to initially set.

Video #23 - 100 lb. Fisherman. 3 to 1 scope. Initial set - rapid.

Video #24 - 45 lb. Manson Supreme. 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate.

Video #24 - 44 lb. Spade. 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate.


Note the correlation between the word "COPY" and the phrase "Failed to initially set".

Steve
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Old 02-12-2015, 23:52   #48
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Great videos Steve. I love the new camera angle, ingenious
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Old 03-12-2015, 01:07   #49
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
Thanks, Cartsen.


Here is a synopsis of the tests videos that I have posted thus far:

Video #1 - 45 lb. Manson Supreme. 3.3 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - rotated and reset immediately.

Video #2 - 45 lb. Manson Supreme. 2.8 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 deg - rotated then released and did not re-set.

Video #3 - 45 lb. Manson Supreme Rock Slot. 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - rotated then reset immediately. No action of rock slot.

Video #4 - 25 lb. Danforth COPY. 3.8 to 1 and 5 to 1 scope. Failed to initially set.

Video #5 - 33 lb. GENUINE Bruce. 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - rotated then reset immediately.

Video #6 - 65 lb. Forfjord. 3.8 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - rotated then reset immediately.

Video #7 - 10 lb. Fortress FX16. 3.9 to scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - rotated then reset immediately.

Video #8 - 10 lb. Fortress FX16 emergency stop. 3 to 1 scope. Initial set (boat moving at 3.6 knots) - immediate.

Video #9 - 45 lb. Manson Supreme. 2.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - released and reset after long drag.

Video #10 - 45 lb. (50?) CQR COPY(?). 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set after long drag on side. 180 degree - released and re-set after long drag.

Video #11 - 45 lb. (50?) CQR COPY(?). 2.5 to 1 scope. Initial set after an upright drag. 180 degree - released and failed to fully re-set.

Video #12 - 44 lb. Spade. 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - rotated/released and re-set rapidly.

Video #13 - 44 lb. Spade. 2.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - released and re-set rapidly.

Video #14 - 33 lb. Bruce COPY. 3.5 to 1 scope. Failed to initially set.

Video #15 - 20 lb. GENUINE Danforth. 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - released and reset after long drag.

Video #16 - 12 lb. Northill. 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate (boat was able to drag set anchor). 180 degree - rotated then re-set (boat was able to drag set anchor).

Video #17 - 33 lb. GENUINE Bruce. 2.5 to 1 scope. Initial set after an upright drag. 180 degree - released and re-set after dragging.

Video #18 - 10 lb. fortress FX16. 2.5 to 1 scope. Initial set after long drag. 180 degree - released and then re-set after dragging

Video #19 - NO TEST. Commentary only.

Video #20 - 45 lb. Manson Supreme Rock Slot (sand/gravel). 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set after dragging due to rock slot engagement. 180 degree - released due to rock slot. Failed to re-set.

Video #21 - 45 lb. Manson Supreme (sand/gravel). 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - very rapid. 180 degree - rotated (multiple times) then re-set immediately.

Video #21 - 44lb. Spade (sand/gravel). 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate. 180 degree - rotated and remained completely set.

Video #22 - 40 lb. Luke COPY. 3.5 to 1 scope. Failed to initially set.

Video #23 - 100 lb. Fisherman. 3 to 1 scope. Initial set - rapid.

Video #24 - 45 lb. Manson Supreme. 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate.

Video #24 - 44 lb. Spade. 3.5 to 1 scope. Initial set - immediate.


Note the correlation between the word "COPY" and the phrase "Failed to initially set".


Steve
I certainly do. Also noted the rock slot problem. Never liked them. Would be interested in a Rocna test, at your convenience and opportunity. Thanks again, Aye, S.
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:06   #50
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

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Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
I certainly do. Also noted the rock slot problem. Never liked them. Would be interested in a Rocna test, at your convenience and opportunity. Thanks again, Aye, S.
for me the rock slot is a big selling point, been two many places where a fouled anchor would be a nightmare. In those scenarios, especially with a good anchor watch, and settled wind direction, or two anchors I would be happy to use the rock slot.



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Old 03-12-2015, 05:20   #51
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

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for me the rock slot is a big selling point, been two many places where a fouled anchor would be a nightmare. In those scenarios, especially with a good anchor watch, and settled wind direction, or two anchors I would be happy to use the rock slot.

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Fair enough. Each anchor has their specific application. I suppose I would tend to favour a tripping line in such circumstances. Many places one can simply dive the anchor, of course. In the very cold places perhaps not unless one has a dry suit on hand, or a 7mm one piece with a shorty over top (I used to dive in Scotland a lot, even during Winter, in such a suit). However I am uneasy about the idea of a self tripping anchor for obvious reasons. I am fairly sure that had I such an anchor, the "rock slot" would remain unused.
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Old 03-12-2015, 06:45   #52
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Steve,

It is great seeing a 10 lb (4.5 kg) Fortress FX-16 anchor tested along with much heavier steel anchors and performing so well.

I would like to add a Fortress of a comparable weight of the steel anchors to the mix, such as the FX-55 (about 32 lbs / 14 kg) or the FX-85 (47 lbs / 21 kg).

Thoughts?

Regards,
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Old 03-12-2015, 13:40   #53
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Thank you for this effort, Steve.

Well done, and very clever with the camera work.

It is very interesting and useful.

I don't know about others, but for me it would be interesting to see how one of the new[ish] Rocna Vulcan anchors behave as, say, compared to an equivalent sized Spade...

Thanks again.

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 03-12-2015, 14:32   #54
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

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Steve,

It is great seeing a 10 lb (4.5 kg) Fortress FX-16 anchor tested along with much heavier steel anchors and performing so well.

I would like to add a Fortress of a comparable weight of the steel anchors to the mix, such as the FX-55 (about 32 lbs / 14 kg) or the FX-85 (47 lbs / 21 kg).

Thoughts?

Regards,
Brian
Brian: I would very much like to test a larger Fortress. However, I worry that my boat may not be able to fully set one due to lack of thrust. Certainly, the FX-85 is so large that I could only pull a few percent of that anchor's total holding power.

Panope weighs 15,000 lbs, has 40 HP and uses a fixed, 3 blade propeller of 18" diameter. Thrust is good but reverse is probably only half of what it is in forward gear. In the future, I may do some pulls from the stern (in forward gear) as a way of increasing pull force. At some point, I will get a load cell and we will have some actual pull force data.

But, you know these anchors better than anyone else so I will let you decide which size would be best for testing.

Steve

On edit: I know this is obvious, but I should make it clear to everyone that these are tests of an anchors ability to set and re-set only. I currently have little ability to test ultimate holding power unless the anchor is very small.
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Old 03-12-2015, 14:53   #55
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

I would like to see footage of an in-line tandem. For example, put the camera over the primary (closest to the boat).

There are many possible anchor combinations, but generally you need the secondary to be weaker, so I would suggest 33# Bruce secondary and 45# Manson Supreme primary. Set, and then slowly change the direction of pull, while under load if practical. There is a lot of mythology regarding tandem rigs. You will need longer scope for a fair test (double) because the tandem affects the setting of the primary.

(Beaches are good for illustration, but it is different. In this case, the secondary has obviously affected the primary--it was well set at the start! I've seen this affect underwater, but never filmed it--we have muddy water.)

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Old 03-12-2015, 15:43   #56
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Thinwater: Interesting idea for a test. I have studied tandem anchoring somewhat and I feel the concept has some merit. I also understand that the technique can cause some problems such as the primary anchor being lifted as in your picture.

With my Limited pulling power, I wonder if the primary anchor should be smaller or with less holding power than my Manson. As it is, I am unable to drag the Manson more than an anchor length. Seems like the secondary anchor will not have a chance to receive much of a pull.

I will give all this some thought.

Steve
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Old 03-12-2015, 18:08   #57
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

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Thinwater: Interesting idea for a test. I have studied tandem anchoring somewhat and I feel the concept has some merit. I also understand that the technique can cause some problems such as the primary anchor being lifted as in your picture.

With my Limited pulling power, I wonder if the primary anchor should be smaller or with less holding power than my Manson. As it is, I am unable to drag the Manson more than an anchor length. Seems like the secondary anchor will not have a chance to receive much of a pull.

I will give all this some thought.

Steve
Try. I think what you will find is that no matter how you set the anchors, with a little shift the primary rolls out if it does not lift out. When it should rotate, the pull from the secondary changes the angle just enough that instead of digging it surfaces. After that, it can never reset, since the secondary will hold it on its back. Heck, I've seen a 12# Northill lift the 35# Manson off the bottom.

Yes, in a soft bottom you can get both set, but in any shift over 20 degrees, it was always worse than the primary alone, so what is the point? I really wanted it to work. So simple. But it never did (except in rocks, which is a completely different mechanism and digging is not involved).

I tried many setting methods, on the beach and diving in the water and hand-placing the anchors.

Even funnier is the Webmar anchor. Even on their web site, every still and every video shows one of the anchors either tripped or not set. They couldn't even stage it and make it work! Pretty comical IMHO. That tells you something about the know-how of the target market.



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Old 05-12-2015, 00:18   #58
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Thinwater: Sounds like tandem anchoring would make for some interesting video!


All: I purchased a second hand, 44 pound GENUINE Bruce ($88) and got some good footage with the side-view cam.

This camera angle revealed something about the set of this anchor that is less than ideal. The anchor sets very rapidly but appears to mound material in-front of itself rather than bury completely into the sub-strait. The previous Bruce anchor tests were filmed with the "down shot" camera and was not able to show this "mounding up" action (if present).

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Old 05-12-2015, 00:49   #59
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

Thanks Steve, that's another great video, we truly are a bunch of anchor tragic's! How many anchors do you own now? I think I am up around 8 anchors at the moment!

I've also now got a cheap 66lb genuine Bruce that I am keen to compare with my 60lb supreme. I see it as a useful backup anchor.

I'm impressed with the Bruce's performance in the video. No where near as good as the new gen anchors but seems much better than the plow, at least setting wise. It would be interesting to see how a well set plow does. The problem seems to be getting the things to actually bury.

Another test that would be great would be clearing a fouled anchor. Does the Manson rock slot actually work? Does the old trick using a loop of chain lowered and a dinghy actually work? I guess there are a bunch of variables, but still it would be interesting.
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Old 05-12-2015, 09:12   #60
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Re: Videos of Anchors Setting

SnowP, I also have 8 anchors, plus a few more if I count my father's. Crazy. Would be very embarrassing if I ever drug ashore.

I like the Idea of a stuck anchor test but I think the anchor would need to be actually stuck to something in order to be a valid test. I'll give that some thought.

Here is the 44 lb. Bruce on rope rode only. I used 3 to 1 scope because that was what I used on the 100 lb. Fisherman rope rode test. I believe the Fisherman anchors were designed to be used in this fashion. The Bruce, not so much.

Steve

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