Using Too Big an Anchor ?

[capnorv]

Winter or summer anchoring? After the first part of May, your 33# Bruce with a good chunk of chain(40-50') and good scope(6-7 to 1) ought to get you some sound sleep. I always set my Bruce by slow set and then full steam reverse set. I sleep much better than a casual set under sail, which I nave also done. If you like a Bruce, keep your eyes open for a 20k Belgium, though I've been happy with my later Brazilian, I miss my old Belgium 33. FYI, I use 340' of chain on a 20k Bruce and have never dragged on a 34' boat, but would like a larger one for the new boat.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by lowride14

I'm going to be living off the hook for a little while and i'm planning on getting a bruce anchor. I only have two different sized danforths right now, not somthing i'm gonna be able to sleep at night with. I have a 38' boat and i found a 33lbs bruce for sale, is there anything wrong with using an anchor meant for a much bigger boat? ( i have a 1000lbs electric windlass)

I have been going by this chart for sizes
Anchor weight guide

IIRC the Bruce anchor was originally developed for large industrial moorage operations. It was thought that they just scaled down what weight worked for their large anchors down to their yacht sizes and published that table. I remember when they first came out being amazed and or suspicious of their size table. It didn't take long for news to filter out perhaps you shouldn't be using their table for choosing the size of a Bruce.

John

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

The holding is actually pretty good around there. Mostly mud. And most of the harbors are quite well protected. We never had any problems. Some of the (east side) harbors are a bit crowded so we sometimes anchored on pretty short scope.

Hurray, someone read what the OP posted. There are two key statements he made:

Originally Posted by lowride14

I have a 38' boat and i found a 33lbs bruce for sale,

Which strikes me that the Bruce might be second hand ie, cheap.

Originally Posted by lowride14

i'm trying to do this on a budget

So no point in turning his thread into a pissing competition between German and NZ anchors, because they are both grossly over priced for what is a lump of ordinary steel.

Lowride, what weights are the two Danforths btw?

Estarzinger suggests you will be okay with the Bruce, which if it's cheap enough would do for a start and then consider possibly selling one or both of the Danforths and replacing them with a larger secondhand anchor by keeping an eye on the free ads or e bay. You never know, someone might be swopping out an old used Rocna for this years must have

Pete

[Jolly Roger]

I have always adhered to two policies regarding anchoring which has served me well over forty years of stopping in all conditions: (1) Use the heaviest, (i.e. biggest), anchor you can personally handle, irrespective of the boat length and weight, and (2) never-never, ever-ever, lie to one anchor overnight. I now have a 65 lb CQR as my main bower on 10mm chain, (I actually wish this was ½”) with a 35 Lb CQR on a strop which, after veering a decent scope I shackle to the main chain and chuck that out as well, then veer more chain and snub that in as well.
Anchoring a boat is an art, which when perfected leads to great satisfaction as others fly past, struggling with inadequate tackle and application, usually on wet, blustery nights.

[Greggegner]

I have two ~40 pound anchors for my 39' boat. Bigger is better...

[Liam Wald]

The real issue is, which anchor? Okay, so this may be one of the most contentious topics to be found here. That and the ever popular "What is a Blue water boat?" topic.

So in my humble opinion, a 33 lb anchor is not too big. Unfortunately the Bruce doesn't have the best record in tests, and also in my experience.

I had a 33lb Bruce on my 12k lb boat and had it drag on several occasions. It was an original Bruce, not a claw copy. I switched to a 33lb Rocna and haven't ever had drag since. Personally I would not trust my boat to any other anchor.
Maybe someone will come up with an anchor that is better than the Rocna, but at this time it is simply the best.

There was an old cruiser saying that went..., "When people wank down the dock and fall over laughing at your anchor because it looks way too big on your boat, you've got the right size!"

[Ram]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

I have always adhered to two policies regarding anchoring which has served me well over forty years of stopping in all conditions: (1) Use the heaviest, (i.e. biggest), anchor you can personally handle, irrespective of the boat length and weight, and (2) never-never, ever-ever, lie to one anchor overnight. I now have a 65 lb CQR as my main bower on 10mm chain, (I actually wish this was ½”) with a 35 Lb CQR on a strop which, after veering a decent scope I shackle to the main chain and chuck that out as well, then veer more chain and snub that in as well.
Anchoring a boat is an art, which when perfected leads to great satisfaction as others fly past, struggling with inadequate tackle and application, usually on wet, blustery nights.

I would bet if you changed to one of the newer designs like Ronca or Manson you would not have all the extra work at setting/retrieving 2 anchors and you would soon find you just made life easier ! Up until I got my first Manson Supreme I did what you’re doing - now I’ve found that in the last 5+ years in just about all bottom conditions I stay put, and in winds as high as 65 knots! Ive not dragged once!

[Pyxis156]

I have one observation that may be helpful for the specific area you are interested in. Prior to buying our boat we cruised fairly extensively in the San Juan islands with a good friend on a Catalina 42 and he used a Bruce (not original). I believe it was in the 33 pound range. Size aside, of particular interest is the fact that because of the tidal action in this area, there can often be fairly significant beds of kelp and / or eelgrass in areas you may want to anchor and our experience was that these completely defeated the Bruce. There were spots where we would try setting anchor over and over with no success, the anchor simply wouldn't dig in.

Based on this, when we bought our boat I ended up buying a 55 pound Rocna from Fisheries Supply at the Seattle Boat Show (at a significant discount). We have tried anchoring in many of the same places that my friend could not and we have had no problem so far with getting the anchor to set. I think the fundamental design difference is the singular point on the Rocna vs. the kind of tri-lobed design of the bruce. The kelp seems to keep the wider tri-lobed design from getting deep enough into the bottom to set whereas the single point on our anchor must work through the kelp and get to the bottom. When we pull up our anchor in these difficult areas, there is often a large wad of dark brown kelp with leathery "leaves" 3-4 inches wide and 20-30 inches long attached to the anchor. Seeing that kelp helps explain why the Bruce style would struggle in this kind of bottom.

Certainly not trying to get into a new-anchor vs. old-anchor pissing match, simply trying to provide another datapoint based on our real-life experiences. You do see a lot of plow-style anchors in this area as Evans suggests in post #25, and I would imagine (again, just my opinion) that with their single point they would handle the kelp/eelgrass better than a Bruce.

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by Ram

I think that guide is way off-too light- and i would not sleep good at night with any bruce, get the Ronca or Manson Supreme Anchor - this is perhaps the most important gear/investment you can buy

In the waters where he's planning on anchoring Bruce are the most commonly used. They're very good in mud.

[cfarrar]

We used a Bruce in Maine for years. If you choose a Bruce go big - at least 20 Kg for your boat, if not larger.

We switched to a Rocna four years ago, and we're much happier.

[endoftheroad]

My 26 foot, 7,000lb boat sits full time on that Bruce 33# and a Delta 33#, both with 40 feet of heavy chain to rode to a total of 65 feet in 15 feet water.

But, I would never trust sitting on the Bruce by itself even with my little boat.

I would recommend a much better anchor for your boat, the bruce should be a lunch anchor for you.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by hummingway

In the waters where he's planning on anchoring Bruce are the most commonly used. They're very good in mud.

I suppose you use what you have that works,in your area- if it isn’t working then it’s time to change course and try something better-If you leave that area you may need something better-

about 5 years ago I sailed into Bilbao, Spain and dropped the hook , a spade a140- and it got tangled on a wreck below, I went in that nasty polluted cold water and got it loose, I then did a circle pattern search to make sure I was not dropping near a wreck again and found a good place, dropped it- stayed there about a week, time came to move and I could not get the anchor to budge, I tried & tried still would not move, so back in the water I went followed the chain down and before I knew it I was in mud so soft and deep I still could not feel the anchor- but I knew what to do to get her out- that Spade A-140 was great in mud or soft sand, but useless in everything else , I want an Anchor thats good in as many bottoms as possible-you never know when your gonna need it until its too late- heck even a broken watch is right twice a day!- so after much research I bought the Manson Supreme and sailed just about every country in the Med over the last 4-5 years now and it has worked flawlessly- I think the Ronca is likely as good ,- I have 4 anchors onboard-a 60 lb - Manson Supreme . A-140 Spade, ,45lb grapple & a worthless xyz- I’m getting rid of the XYZ replacing it with a Fortress-
To me the ground tackle onboard any vessel has to be the most important set of gear you can own ,its cheap insurance- like brakes on a car,you can have a$ 100,000 car but what good is it if it only stops good on some of the roads!

[Kashmir cat]

You might want to check out anchor tests conducted in the last 10-12 years. Although the Bruce seems to set quickly, it has consistantly ranked near the bottom for holding power. If your mind is still "set" on a Bruce, I would get a big one.

[endoftheroad]

The man says he's on a "budget".

Why is everyone talking about Rocna's and anchor reports?

He knows of a bruce for sale.

The answer is NO, don't buy it, pass it up, it's much too small.

[Feral Cat]

Hi, not wanting to hijack the thread but in my limited anchoring and looking for a correct size anchor for my boat (Also 38')...

I am believing that the ground tackle includes the ANCHOR, CHAIN, AND ANY RODE (If used) comprises the ground tackle... Here is where I am going with this...

Many opinions on the correct size/type anchor to use and I do agree with the bigger the better...

Question: how much chain do you use with the selected anchor? Do you use more chain when using a lighter weight anchor to compensate for the perceived lighter weight anchor? If the boat is a lighter displacement hull and load capacities are limited does more chain compensate for use of a lighter anchor (We are talking about the difference between a 33# and a 44# anchor in the OP original question) holding and setting differences aside.

With more chain and correct scope, will the difference of a 33 vs. 44# anchor really make that much of a difference? I do believe that bigger is better but just trying to understand the dynamics at work here...

Doesn't the chain help to keep the anchor set once it gets set? If use of all rope rode then I can really see a need for a bigger anchor to help keep it set due to the angles created by winds force on the boat. With chain and enough of it, theoretically, there really is minimal pull on the chain at the anchor connection and then only in a direction that actually helps set it further, not pull it out?

Hope this is not a hijack, if so let me know and I will post elsewhere...

Have a good one!