Two Anchors, Two Rodes...

[Delancey]

So, I have been using a 45lbs Mantus as my primary anchor with 50 feet of 3/8" proof coil chain plus 200 feet of 5/8" three strand. The weight of the anchor and chain is about 115lbs.

I have recently added to the mix a 15lbs Fortress which I was planning on pairing with 50 feet of 5/16" G4 and 200 feet of 5/8" braite I have purchased. The weight of this anchor and chain together would be about 70 lbs.

I got the Fortress expecting to be using it as a kedge and the difference in weight between the two different anchors and different chains is 45 lbs.

Then I had a thought about switching the chains so that the Mantus with 5/16" would weight 100lbs and the Fortress with the 3/8" chain would weigh 85lbs, a difference between the two of 15lbs.

I can think of pluses and minuses for either of the two options but since I don't have a windlass the later option has the appeal of at least saving me 15lbs off the anchor I use most often. Would the Fortress really benefit from that extra 20lbs of chain? Would the Mantus miss it?

Or, would I end up using the Fortress with the 5/16" more often as my primary anchor if I went with my original plan since it would weigh 45 lbs less than what I am working with now and probably fine for most situations and most bottoms?

[UNCIVILIZED]

Is there a way to have the budget allow for G4 chain on both? Even if it meant just keeping the 10mm chain in the bilge for unforseen moments/events.

[Cotemar]

Get your Primary anchor in order just the way you want it, as that is what you will use 99.9% of the time.

Your Secondary is important, but not as important as you will us it .01% of the time.

We anchored out with our last boat for 7 years and never ever used our secondary anchor.

[Panope]

I figure the real reason to have lots of chain is for chafe protection. I you are not concerned about the nylon being cut by sharp stuff on the bottom, then cut the 5/16 chain in half and use 25 feet on each rode. Either one of those anchors will set fine with short/light chain.

Save your back.

Steve

[rognvald]

D,
On our 34 foot/11,800 lb displacement boat, we use a 35lb CQR with 40' of 3/8 chain for our primary anchor and a Fortress FX23 (15 lb) with 40' of 5/16" chain for our secondary anchor. If we are in a sand/gravel bottom in deep water, we use our Fortress since it is easier to haul by hand. However, in questionable bottoms, we use the CQR with heavier chain and muscle it up. I would stick with the 5/16 chain on the Fortress. In most cases, it will be your preferred anchor(in moderate or less conditions) if you haul by hand. Good luck and safe sailing.

[pdenton]

I have a 35 foot Pearson. Likewise no winch. My primary anchor is 35# ROCNA.
Its rode 20' 5/16 G-4, 300' 1/2" 8 strand. Total weight less than 75"
Storm anchor 45# mantus 20' G-4 300' 5/8" braided.
Both anchors set in pivoting bow rollers and attached to tether with prussic knot loop on 316 ss 1/2" eye set at water line.
have been sailing 40 years.
Since electric winches can, it is best if you have the physical strength to pull up whatever arrangement you have. Of course you can use a proper claw and self- tailing winch in emergency winch failure. And then of course,there is a problem that at 40 knots a chain has no elasticity.
since the Pearson has fine lines fore and aft 800#s of chain, anchors, winch +battery would cause an intolerable degree of hobbyhorsing.
I slowly motor until the rode his vertical and then give it a blast of RPMs to unset it.
pdenton

[buzzstar]

I have not used chain weight in my determinations, at least directly. Sure I am aware that more length equals more weight, but beyond that it has always, to me been scope and chafe considerations. I know about kellets too, but have not used one. Having often considered the weight of the anchor itself, first reaction to the 15 lb Fortress was, that sounds about right for aluminum, but what does the manufacturer suggest? Also, upon reading the thread, I thought the comment by Cotemar and 99.9 / 0.1 as being closer to reality. You know your limitations (budgetary) but Uncivilized has a point.

[rognvald]

D,
There is another point to consider: Black Magic. All kidding aside, experimentation with differing chain/rode/anchor combinations may give you ground tackle which does not fit neatly on the charts but works for your particular boat. Your boat's displacement, draft, freeboard, hull configuration and windage all play an important part in finding the right combination. For example, my 5/16" chain paired with the FX23 is the perfect combination for my boat even though Fortress calls for 3/8" chain. And, although my CQR requires 5/16" chain, I have used the 3/8" chain to maximum benefit and efficiency. I believe few boats can use "out of the box" numbers for maximum efficiency. And, when you mix in bottom characteristics, tidal sluicing, etc.the magic factor increases. Experiment, experiment, experiment. Good luck and safe sailing.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by rognvald

D,
There is another point to consider: Black Magic. All kidding aside, experimentation with differing chain/rode/anchor combinations may give you ground tackle which does not fit neatly on the charts but works for your particular boat. Your boat's displacement, draft, freeboard, hull configuration and windage all play an important part in finding the right combination. For example, my 5/16" chain paired with the FX23 is the perfect combination for my boat even though Fortress calls for 3/8" chain. And, although my CQR requires 5/16" chain, I have used the 3/8" chain to maximum benefit and efficiency. I believe few boats can use "out of the box" numbers for maximum efficiency. And, when you mix in bottom characteristics, tidal sluicing, etc.the magic factor increases. Experiment, experiment, experiment. Good luck and safe sailing.

While I agree with the above, financial limitations prevent limit the opportunities to experiment, although with anchors and chain, etc. I have always tended to oversize by at least one notch if I had the means to do so. Way back when, my body had the strength and the stamina to handle the loads the vessels I had required. I still recall the first time I could not get it up all the way. Thank goodness for the windlass.

[pdenton]

I certainly agree that experimentation is good even necessary because every boat and every skipper is different.
2 points however seem important. The new generation anchors have been proven to under most conditions be superior especially to the CQR and they are not very expensive ( except for the overpriced Spade). No matter how much chain you use why would you choose old-style over G4 which is stronger let's say 5/16 to BBB 3/8.
An all chain rode is dangerous above 40 kts without a significant snubber, 20' won't cut it.
I'm surprised at that the number of skippers who do not realize that the major element in chafe is internal friction, not external abrasion.

[thinwater]

A few thoughts on the Fortress:

1. The lighter the chain the better. Heavy chain actually makes a Fortress harder to set, since the shank is dragged down into the mud.

2. A kedge is often taken out in a dinghy. The lighter the better. I would use less chain.

3. If you have 2 anchors out, cutting of the rode is unlikely in the extreme; you are not swinging and the rode is not moving. I've gone to using an over-strength Dyneema leader with a chafe guard and I really like it.

[rognvald]

"Way back when, my body had the strength and the stamina to handle the loads the vessels I had required. I still recall the first time I could not get it up all the way. Thank goodness for the windlass." buzzstar

Buzz,
This will be recorded in the annals as a CF Classic!!! Good luck and safe sailing.

[barnakiel]

Use as your main the anchor that is better fit for your cruising grounds. If there is any weed, a Fortress is a bad choice, the same if there is much rock.

You are only lifting the anchor and the vertical part of the chain. Our kit now is 8mm (5/16) chain on a 33 pounder. In 10 meters of water this makes for 66 pounds to lift. I would not like to have a kit that is any heavier than this. No winch here either (a small boat, no winch needed).

Take good care of your back. We only have one.

Cheers,
b.

[eialm]

When the conditions are getting bad or when staying at the anchor for several days especially if leaving the boat on anchor while away overnight I always use tandem anchoring. The primary anchor is a CQR 45 lbs. (for a Sweden Yachts 36) and attached to that with 10 meters of chain the FX 23. The two anchors are quite different and will cover any kind of sea bed.