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Old 01-05-2009, 06:50   #61
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Perhaps my relative newness negates my understanding of the issues but why has this become such a "sensitive" topic? I agree with boatpoker, it seems to me that a float would be a courtesy that helps others know where your anchor is set. I've pulled into an anchorage and seen boats pointing haphazardly in every direction. I had no idea where they set their anchors and believed dropping my hook was a real gamble.
I really don't get it.
Please note I also have responded without a snide commentary...well almost.
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:54   #62
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Wow, I seem to have got all the "This buoy marks my anchor's spot" fanatics foaming at the mouth .

The fact is many manage without buoying their anchor and many (I suspect most of us in the wider world) manage to anchor without needing others to buoy their anchors. In some parts of the world no one ever buoys their anchor to mark its position nor needs others to do so - perhaps they are typically better seamen.

To label people who don't agree with your point of view as "fanatics" is, I think most would agree, a little much. It would be akin to labelling someone who espouses their point of view as the only correct solution as an "arrogant prick". Wouldn't you agree?
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:09   #63
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Good point about labeling, Dave.

Spirited discussion of all sides of boating issues is welcome, but it works best here when everyone remains civil, friendly and open-minded.
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:53   #64
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GPS Anchor Marker

As we have several GPS units aboard, we always use one to mark the position of our anchor when we go into an anchorage. My wife or I simply hit the MOB key when the anchor hits the bottom and from that point on, our GPS display reports the direction and distance to the anchor. As our trusty 45# CQR usually sets within a few feet of the drop, the MOB position is usually close enough for "government work". Unless conditions are exceptional, we usually use 5:1 scope on an all chain rode and once the anchor is set, activate the GPS Anchor Alarm and adjust the distance to account for our swing.

Although I can see merit to marking an anchor's position with a small float and a very light line (so that should someone over-run the float, the line is broken rather than have the anchor snatched out of the bottom), in areas where anchorages tend to be crowded such as ours, I can see that being a problem as well. In most anchorages it is likely that another yacht may swing over one's anchor but, as a practical matter, we haven't found that to be much of a problem. More of an issue is someone coming into the anchorage in the dark and passing too close to the bow of a yacht laying to an anchor with an un-weighted nylon rode and possibly snagging that. This I have seen and the results were unfortunate.

FWIW...
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:02   #65
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I am wondering how one would find themselves adrift from their anchor? That statement seems to be an intentional remark.

You seem to stay with your boat, and never leave? Sometimes I am gone for the day. I return, and the person over my anchor is gone. Now I am stuck, but you suggest I should move them away from my anchor. In what manner? What has prompted me to use a float. Is people with no courtesy at all, or knowledge. I didn't start out using it.

There are people in boating that anchor just like people in parking lots. I drive a 10 year old truck that looks maybe a couple of years old. I park the farthest I can get away from the front door of the store. I always seem to come out, and some junker is parked so close to me I don't know how they got out of the car. I mean there's not another frikking car around for hundreds of parking spaces.

Please do yourself a favor, and do not bash my skills. Instead of debating you are making this personal. I refuse to lower myself to that. BEST WISHES in making the world perfect as your eyes see it........i2f

Well, I'm off now to set some setlines and nets in the middle of a local channel, others do it here so I might as well do so too. Is their fault if they get fouled by them because as you say "Going slow with a proper lookout is the way to avoid them".

perhaps they are typically better seamen.

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Old 01-05-2009, 08:07   #66
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I've never used a float, and very rarely see them in Maine or southern New England.

I can say that, if you go to a deeper, crowded anchorage like Block Island, and put out 10:1 and set an anchor buoy, you're not playing very nice. These are crowded areas, and everyone has to try and get along. That means accepting that, as the wind shifts, people will be swinging over each others anchors, at least temporarily.

The advantage of 10:1 over 7:1 is mostly psychological. At 7:1 scope, the angle of your rode to the bottom, ignoring catenary, is 8.2 degrees. Look at 8 degrees on a protractor, the pull is damn near horizontal.

At 10:1 scope, the angle of the rode ignoring catenary is 5.7 degrees. You really haven't gained much and, in deeper water, you've taken a lot more real estate. In 26' of water, with a 4' freeboard, 7:1 gives 210' of scope, swinging thru a circle of roughly 414', and an area of 3 acres. In the same water, 10:1 is 300', taking a 597' circle, and an area of 6.4 acres. For negligible actual security, you're taking over twice the space.

Remember, the deeper the water and longer the chain, the more catenary helps you, especially with an all chain rode.

I don't think this applies much to I2F's case, as he is in shallow water, and with only 80' out with a high windage boat may not have much catenary in 60 knts. I don't know what his freeboard is, but 80' of scope seems like a modest rode to me.

But in deeper, crowded anchorages, the longer length of rode will give much greater catenary, and 10:1 is simply unnecessary and unneighborly.
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:08   #67
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If you want to ensure nobody anchors to close, and I do mean nobody, then get yourself the following gear:

Brightly colored innertubes
Small tricycle, preferably pink with tassles
Good assortment of bathing suits, sized 2T-5T
Child sized life jackets, the more the merrier

Now, take said gear and display prominently around your lifelines.

Then, enjoy your own private anchorage - with no unfriendly yelling required!

Of course if you don't have kids then be prepared for an 'interesting' conversation with the authorities...
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:57   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amfivena View Post
If you want to ensure nobody anchors to close, and I do mean nobody, then get yourself the following gear:

Brightly colored innertubes
Small tricycle, preferably pink with tassles
Good assortment of bathing suits, sized 2T-5T
Child sized life jackets, the more the merrier

Now, take said gear and display prominently around your lifelines.

Then, enjoy your own private anchorage - with no unfriendly yelling required!

Of course if you don't have kids then be prepared for an 'interesting' conversation with the authorities...

LOL.

Do kiddie swim floats work as anchor floats?

I am still learning.

Thanks all.

PS: Mark, I understand one thing. TOO CLOSE is definitely a relative thing.
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:05   #69
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no need to get that radical

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amfivena View Post
If you want to ensure nobody anchors to close, and I do mean nobody, then get yourself the following gear:

Brightly colored innertubes
Small tricycle, preferably pink with tassles
Good assortment of bathing suits, sized 2T-5T
Child sized life jackets, the more the merrier
An easier solution, at least for those of us who are childless, is to install a wind generator. It used to be that if I was the first boat to anchor in a ten-boat cove, the second boat would invariably drop its hook within 20 meters of where I'd dropped mine. These days, however, if the whirlybird is spinning the second boat seems to want to anchor out of earshot.

Go figure.
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:30   #70
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For those not familiar with cats, this statement bares repeating...

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We don't see 10 meters. We rarely see 15 feet, and usually anchor in well under 10 ft. So do you suggest I constantly stay with the boat, and become a slave to it? So those numbers get thrown out. Do you anchor in areas with daily, and nightly squalls? Anybody in this area does. It is not uncommon to see 60+ winds. Normally there is 80ft. of chain out. One of the advantages of a multi. You are thinking mono, and in that reference I see your point. Most likely most monos can't even consider anchoring where I am at.

Selfish I think not! Did you read my post where even though I was first, and some one achored close. That it was me that left, because the person in the mono doesn't understand that cats may sometimes wander over the hook.

We are all staking claim when we drop the hook. I am being polite enough to send a message where my hook is. I have had many boats drop the hook, and come along side me maybe 20ft. away. Possibly if they had known where my hook was this could be avoided. There is both a negative, and positive side to setting a float. I see the positive, and I guess what you see is the negative. Remember my boat doesn't always sit as others do, because of windage, and the lack wetted area.......i2f
Cats don't sail more at anchor, not with a bridle, but depending on the boat, they frequently swing differently because of the shallow draft and higher windage. I am FREQUENTLY pointing 90-180 from the monos in the anchorage. We anchor in the shallows to offset this, as often as possible, using water that is otherwise empty. It saves scope. We anchor at higher scope, because we have less rode out. However, I may be over my anchor while you are swinging. You need to know this will happen.

If I expect a big wind shift and an afternoon squal, there will be 2 anchors out. Just a statment of fact. I anchor carefully and don't drag. If the bottom is bad, I move. If the anchorage is too crowded, I move on. But generally, I can find an unused corner.
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:32   #71
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An easier solution, at least for those of us who are childless, is to install a wind generator. It used to be that if I was the first boat to anchor in a ten-boat cove, the second boat would invariably drop its hook within 20 meters of where I'd dropped mine. These days, however, if the whirlybird is spinning the second boat seems to want to anchor out of earshot.

Go figure.

Firstly, I prefer the term "childfree" rather than "childless."

Secondly, would firing up the 12Kw Kohler generator have the same effect as a noisy wind generator? We will be cruising in a motor vessel. That in itself might keep some boats from anchoring too close.
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:41   #72
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I don't know how many here have been to Marigot in St. Martin, but there is a small boat close in that won't move again for a while and a gent (I will use the term rather loosely in the widest sense of the term) who lives aboard has set a kedge anchor at 90 degrees so that his boat and it's solitary solar cell are always at a correct angle. Whenever anyone comes even remotely close to his boat he is on deck and jumping up and down screaming at them to go elsewhere and not ruin his kedge. This happens 2-3 times a day and I've learned some colorful new expletives. He insists "if everyone did this you could fit double as many boats in the anchorage". During my first encounter with him, after hearing racial and national slurs, I asked him to continue our philosophical discussion on the dock and since then he has not shouted at me; but I still get entertainment value from him whenever I am in Marigot.
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:44   #73
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Here in the Med- sometimes you wake up early and a yacht is right on top of your anchor, its no troble to get your anchor up with out even waking them up -if you have at least 1 extra set of hands onboard- I just put out some fenders ( I have big ones the round 30 inch ones) and just push the boat off the anchor - its very easy and have had to do it once a year or so.
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Old 01-05-2009, 10:06   #74
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I learned very quickly not to let my blood pressure soar because of someone anchoring "too close" to my own anchor.

All it took was sailing to the French islands. The French, I think, like to be cozy. Really cozy. If I had fretted about it, it happens so often that I probably would have had a heart attack. And to tell the truth, in all my anchoring and elsewhere in the Caribbean, and also in the Chesapeake Bay, I have never had a problem with boats touching nor with getting the anchor back on board. As bad as it looked when they did it, it has always worked out.

Worrying about someone being "too close" is just another way to ruin your enjoyment of a lovely anchorage. Life's too short. Invite 'em over for a drink!
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:43   #75
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Amfivena, good one! I can guarantee it would work to keep us at a distance!

In the Med we don’t use an anchor marker and rarely see one used. Other boats being over our anchor is the norm, and rarely a problem. On occasion someone anchors too close to us, but just waiting & watching usually permits the other crew to see their own error & move on. Failing that, getting out the fenders usually does the trick.

An issue that is more of a frustration rather than a hazard is the motor yacht with a high flybridge laying right beside us or on our stern & having the occupants staring down into our cockpit. That’s too close for our preference!
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