Soft Shackle for Bridle Attachment?

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by surfmachine

Thanks SWL, i was considering ordering this one from ebay, I am in country western australia.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3mm-10mm....c100284.m3505

Do you think it has a button or diamond knot? I think I left about 2cm for the first one I made. It went straight into use on our snubber and the tail did not shorten appreciably, but it made me feel better .

Keith.

That is a diamond.

Having said that the button style ones are superior, the early ones I made for our snubber were diamond style and we had no issues.

My only hesitation is that the quality of construction of some of the commercial soft shackles I have seen is dubious. I would vastly prefer to rely on a soft shackle I had made rather than purchasing one through eBay.

Why not learn to tie a diamond knot? Start by learning to tie a Carrick bend and then with a little practice you should find they are very easy to tie. I would make the soft shackle without any central buried portion (or only a small very amount for better handling), as it is harder to get the load distribution even between the two legs, weakening the design.

A few tips for beginners:
Don’t split strands when forming the eye and leave an equal number of strands on each side
Don't make the eye too small (a common fault). I would make it big enough to hold four lots of dyneema.
Spend some time tightening up the diamond knot using a marlin spike first, then close the soft shackle, secure it to something strong (eg a winch) and slowly and smoothly apply load using a winch. Let it sit under tension at least 20 min.
Don't cut the tails flush. Leave a bit sticking out.

SWL

[Seaworthy Lass]

Instructions for tying a diamond knot:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ot-187913.html

[surfmachine]

Wow SWL, what a comprehensive answer, that is what this forum is all about, i am really beginning to understand the soft shackle variants now! I will now be confident to use one as my snubber to chain connection.


Seems I have been tying my main sheet soft tackle wrongly, not just push the knot through the loop, but then bring the knot back again through the loop somehow?
Thanks from Keith.

[Steve Bedford]

I am a big fan of Dyneema Soft Shackles for most of the reasons stated in this thread. However, to attach a Bridle or Snubber to a chain, why not use a rolling hitch? Easy to tie and untie. Tied properly, super strong in taking the load off the chain. Does not “bang into” your gel coat or other boat parts.

Steve

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by surfmachine

Seems I have been tying my main sheet soft tackle wrongly, not just push the knot through the loop, but then bring the knot back again through the loop somehow?
Thanks from Keith.

No, you just push the stopper knot through the loop at the end.

Basically what all the soft shackles have in common is that they are simply bit of dyneema doubled over and a small loop formed at the apex, then a stopper knot formed with the tail ends. The stopper knot then goes through the loop.

Some soft shackle designs are as simple as that. They are called the Kohlhoff style.

All sorts of variations then exist for the twin legs that form the main body of the soft shackle. The Colligomarine style buries one leg in the other. This is the style of the one on eBay you posted a link to.

These two designs using the diamond stopper were the very first ones and named after the rope manufacturer/supplier who developed them from opposites sides of the globe over a decade ago.

From there, the Better opening was designed and this is a big improvement of the ease of use of the Colligomarine version. There is no difference in strength. The Better opening can also be used with no central bury of the legs, or with a small amount of bury. I am a big fan of this opening and use it for all the styles of soft shackles I make.

Then came the Button “high strength” version with again a host of variations in the central portion (eg with or without a Better opening and with or without a small buried portion of the central legs).

Other types of stopper knots can also be used. Also, rather than a stopper knot, toggles can be used, with again the same central variations, but then the shackle is no longer “soft” .

If you are starting out making these, I would simply start with the very basic Kohlhoff version, as it minimises what you can stuff up when you are just learning or working carelessly . There is just a loop and a stopper. The main priority is not to have failure with low loads. You can then play with variations as your skill level and confidence improve.

SWL

[Suijin]

Just some encouragement for folks to learn how to make these. After struggling through the first and maybe the second the “degree of difficulty” drops to near zero. Dyneema is relatively cheap and before you know it you’ll be using soft shackles all over your boat, making custom sizes for all sorts of applications.

[surfmachine]

Thanks again SWL and Suijin.
I will order the dynema and make my own.
Keith.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by surfmachine

Thanks again SWL and Suijin.
I will order the dynema and make my own.
Keith.

Holler if you have any queries.
I would love to see photos.

SWL

[Seaworthy Lass]

Keith, I have attached photos of the very first soft shackle I made after it had served on the snubber for some time, and for comparison the very latest ones using Button stoppers.

I can't help but smile at the length of tails I left on the Diamond stopper. I had read they could be sucked into the stopper when load was initially applied so I made sure I had length to spare

[CGirvan]

I'm inspired to start making my own soft shackles for use on board. Do you have any recommendations for dyneema line to start with, size, brand, sources etc.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by CGirvan

I'm inspired to start making my own soft shackles for use on board. Do you have any recommendations for dyneema line to start with, size, brand, sources etc.

5mm or 6mm is a sweet spot to start. These diameters are thick enough not too be fiddly to work with, yet they are thin enough that the stoppers can be tightened up well by hand so there is minimal slippage when finally pretentioned. They also end up a good size to handle, so even if that strength is not needed that is usually what I reach for.

8mm is the largest than we need on our 49 footer.

Unless you go for ferociously expensive SK90 or SK99, there is minimal difference between all the manufacturers of the commonly available SK75 and SK78 (the latter has less creep and elongation, which is generally unimportant for soft shackles).

Some dyneema seems to snag super easily and become “fluffy” with use, so I would suggest buying in small quantities until you find one you like.

Online prices are generally cheaper.

Lately I have used Acera, a UMPE fibre which is a third of the price of dyneema with similar characteristics to SK78.

SWL

[evm1024]

I make my own soft shackle using the button knot. I make them in batches and quickly forget how to make them a short time later... That is why in batches.

There is also the Mantus Snubber Pendant that is intended for this application.

N.B. I sell mantus stuff - full disclosure

[StuM]

Originally Posted by surfmachine

Thanks again SWL and Suijin.
I will order the dynema and make my own.
Keith.

Hooray, another convert to the art of Marlinspike Seamanship!

Do you use the Zepellin Bend?

[surfmachine]

Thanks StuM and SWL, I have ordered 5 metres of
5 x Dyneema (UHWMPE) 6mm X 1 metre - Light Grey
Price: $3.90 = $19.50 incl post aud....SK99 from whitsundays in queensland.

To make the 6mm anchor snubber connections, best button style... I would need to cut about
*how long? 1400mm??
*make the loop , noose, 12X diameter?
*total bury 8 X diam?

StuM, how did you make the screwdriver pull through fid please?
Cheers from Keith

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Steve Bedford

However, to attach a Bridle or Snubber to a chain, why not use a rolling hitch? Easy to tie and untie. Tied properly, super strong in taking the load off the chain. Does not “bang into” your gel coat or other boat parts.

Steve

I second that