Snag ate my anchor

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You should have tried my "time out" one hour coffee break.

Do you have scuba gear? Do any of your friends dive?

Fstbttms

I had Dekat singing the songs of his people this am. I thought I had one can of cat food dekat would like, but not this morning. So getting cat food sort of overruled taking a break. A happy Dekat is a happy boat.

No scuba gear other then a mask. The Delta is more a fishing paradise then a dive mecca. The central bay is 65 miles west.

Thanks for the offer of the 75# anchor. But without a windless and without funds of any real sort., ( I really do hold down the bottom end of the sailing monetary lifestyle), I'll have to decline.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'm not sure about cutting from the dinghy -- how will your boat stay in place once you've cut the snag loose? I might trying lifting up with a halyard and cutting from the deck.

I had the whole thing up just under the bowsprint this am. Well one log anyway. 10 feet long and 12" diameter. Got most of it untangled and dropped it back in to see if the chain would slip off. Nope and when I hauled it up again there were two logs, and plastic sheeting.

Chants were said. A bow saw is going to be on my must have list. I am NEVER anchoring there again. It was not one of my normal spots.

Lets try someplace new she said. It will be fun she said. Grrrrr

[Jim Cate]

SC, I can understand your concern about working from a kayak! Any chance you could borrow a bigger dink for the job? Would be a good place for a beat up tinny... I was worried about the possibility of a nail or something sticking out of that nasty piling and holing our inflatable, but not about stability.

Can you tell if it is the anchor or the chain that is caught? In our Tasmanian debacle the snag was about 75 feet from the anchor, and the anchor may or may not have been itself caught... I could not tell. If I had felt better about diving, I could possibly have recovered the anchor itself, even if the chain was inextricable. The combination of 45 foot depth, an unknown snag configuration, icy water with zero visibility and a fairly strong current dissuaded this old fart from trying!!

None of us like to ask for help, but this is one place where an additional body would come in handy... dunno if that works for you, SC.

Good luck again

Jim

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Can you tell if it is the anchor or the chain that is caught? In our Tasmanian debacle the snag was about 75 feet from the anchor, and the anchor may or may not have been itself caught... I could not tell. If I had felt better about diving, I could possibly have recovered the anchor itself, even if the chain was inextricable. The combination of 45 foot depth, an unknown snag configuration, icy water with zero visibility and a fairly strong current dissuaded this old fart from trying!!


Good luck again

Jim

It's the chain that fouled but probably only 20 feet from the anchor or so. I tried to get a line on the anchor side of the chain, but could not reach it.

My biggest concern was not getting injured as that would have been annoying being singlehanded. I pondered this morning how far I wanted to go. I decided it was not worth getting hurt over.

I thought about tieing a float to the bitter end, but decided getting the chain up might be tricky for me. If I had a lumberjack with a chainsaw, there would have been other options. I know my limitations, which sometimes annoy me.

Plus I only had $160 in the anchor and chain and 1/2 the chain, that was used when I got it, was rusting. So not as big a loss as yours.

Of course it was high tide when I anchored. At low tide, there were lots of branches sticking up out of the water between the boat in shore. Not a good sign. I said to myself then, "Here there be dragons".

[UNCIVILIZED]

Sorry to hear of this, it's one of my big anchoring/sailing fears. I wish you both patience & luck in resolving it. And please remember that you cost more than the chain. We'd hate to lose your smile around here.
Also, time spent thinking usually costs little in such situations, yet it can pay big dividends. And extra brain power is a synergistic thing.

Keep the chain & the tree on the surface with the buoyancy of large fenders at first perhaps. And if possible, you can tie each end of a log alongside your boat. I’d think that should steady them much more than a 1-line tie off. Plus, the boat's buoyancy & stability will work in your favor on this.
Basically, use Nature's forces, Newton etc. to assist you. Including to roll logs (carefully) & to lift things. And the more points of stability the better. That way things are less likely to move without your permission.

For example, when I lived on a permanent mooring, & thus wanted to secure my boat to the chain underneath of the ball, I used my main vessel as the crane. And worked on the connections from an ama bow, or the dink. She was a trimaran.
I used a halyard to lift things, while steadying the ball via lines from two of the boat's bows. And on a mono, I'd do similar if pressed. But with some heavy carpeting between the boat's hull, & the item being lifted. Albeit, again, with said item well stabilized with other lines, in addition to the hoist.

Since chain's old & partially rusted, perhaps cut it as required. Thus saving long sections if you can't keep the whole thing. And this may be the "safest" plan.

Be careful of kickback & widow makers if/when cutting & pulling on things. They can be heavily loaded, but not obviously so. Or even be unseen. Who knows what’s keeping the trees pinned in place, or how. And how they’ll react when the load’s shifted.

For more stability in your kayak, might it be possible to temporarily build an outrigger for it? Even if it’s just an old 55gal drum, or several fenders or inner tubes. Just thinking aloud.


Good luck with it, & of course, if you can, Shanghai a friend ;-)


PS: You might consider grabbing a pre-loved hatchet or short handled axe, machete, etc. Sometimes they are handier than a saw for well aimed wood removal. Especially at a greater distance than a saw will allow. Or on stuck items that you don't want to get near.

[dannc]

Can you rent a pole saw? Something like this, https://www.amazon.com/Fiskars-7-9-1...7333100&sr=1-3

The problem with bow saws is that if the log is large enough, the bow part of the saw can limit how far you can cut into the wood.

A good pole saw has a sharp saw and will cut through wood pretty quickly. The pole will give you some reach from the boat deck.

There are also similar hand saws that might be helpful, https://www.amazon.com/Fiskars-POWER...p_89%3AFiskars

Sometimes, the outer wood on a log will be easy to cut through and the inner core a real PITA. If this is the case, one technique is to cut around the log in the softer wood and then apply pressure to break the log. This might be easy to do on a boat using a winch and line on the end of the log. Just be careful of what happens when the log breaks.

Cutting through 12 inch logs with a manual saw is going to take time if it is hardwood and not rotted. It might take hours and hours to cut the logs but it can be done. Using some oil on the saw can help as well.

Many times an axe or hatchet can be use to remove the outer layer of the log fairly quickly and then a saw can be used. Not sure how you could safely use an axe and even a hatchet would be problematic...

Later,
Dan

[Saleen411]

Where on the Delta are you? Would you like some help?

[JPA Cate]

Uncivilized,

I really like the outrigger for the kayak idea. A stable platform will help SC, even if it winds up being the big boat. Her magnet idea, too is a good one. (Sorry for talking about you as if you weren't here, SC.)

I think you might be able to drag for the chain cum anchor, but of course, it sort of depends on how the tree is spread. It's probably a big mother tree, if it still has branches visible at low water, and probably aligned somewhat with the flow of the ebb.

If you take the big boat up the creek again, buoy the anchor when you anchor the boat, so you won't get trapped a second time. Had we buoyed our anchor, we wouldn't have lost it too.

I'll write a little about asking for help, now, and I hope no one will be offended. I was single for about 10 yrs. between marriages. So, i'm used to having someone around to talk out solutions, but can also remember doing such stuff for myself. And for a while, it was extremely important to me to do everything for myself. My self confidence was threatened by the prospect of involving another person, even another woman. As Murphy would have it, some things happened and I had to ask for help: I lacked the strength to remove a frozen up nut I had to get off to drop the transmission in my car.
I asked a friend's 6'4" tall older brother to help and he managed it for me. I still find it hard to ask for help, but as I age and get weaker, I find it happens more often than not. And eventually, I found a rationalization I could use, that I was still responsible for getting the job done, but that involved getting it done the best way possible, it allowed me the comfort of still being the head honcho, and I learned a big lesson: people just love to help!, it's almost like you're doing them a favor to let them help. I know SC did not ask for advice about this, but about which anchor to use in the interim, but if you, SC, think about this job from the pov of how it can best be done, maybe that will open up some options for you.

Ann

[Cottontop]

Coincidentally posted by the Headmistress on another forum today:

In keeping with this thread, I think y'all will appreciate this true story of a young sailboat owner's adventures with the magnet he was sure would recover all kinds of treasures that had been lost overboard at the dock over the years. He posted it on sailboatowners.com at least 10 years ago...I saved it. Here is....

The Wild Magnet
by Peter Roach

I bought a 150 lb magnet (that is the lifting ability not the weight of the magnet). My slip is in about 45’ of water and over time I have dropped an assortment of wrenches, car keys, bolts, nuts, multiple pairs of sunglasses, irreplaceable parts to my roller furling, etc. I could just picture sending this magnet down on the end of a line and retrieving all sorts of treasures from the bottom. I even thought I might become the ‘man of the hour’ by helping my lesser-equipped dock mates retrieve their lost treasures. In essence this magnet was going to make me look really cool.

The first lesson I learned with the magnet is one should never stand too close to a car with a powerful magnet in a thin plastic bag. According to modern physics, if a magnet is designed to lift 150 pounds, it takes 150 pounds of pulling power to get it off of the fender of a 1993 Mazda Miata. Also we discovered, Mazda paint jobs will not hold up against a sharp metal object being pressed against it with 150 pounds of pressure. One piece of advice, if you decide to test this theory, make sure the young attractive girl that owns the Miata (and you have been trying to get a date with her for months) is not in the proximity of the test area – oh well.

The second lesson I learned is one should never place a very powerful magnet near an electronic component. Usually electronic components and magnets are natural enemies and the magnet is highest on the food chain. Like the lion and the zebra – the magnet wins. This includes the compass on your boat (actually it was one of my crew members that attached it to the rail around the compass).

All of these problems seemed to be worth the effort in order for me to strut down the dock with my new purchase, tie it to a 50’ line, and pull untold treasures from the deep and impress my friends on the dock.

As I calmly walked toward my slip, with my magnet sticking to my car keys thorough the thin plastic bag and my shorts, I beckoned to my dock mates to witness the miracle of reclaiming the abandoned and formerly lost treasures from the deep. Apparently, the confidence in my voice and the promise of untold treasures from the deep, caused a larger than normal crowd to gather on the dock.

Without even stopping to unlock my boat, I retrieved an old anchor line from the dock box. While I straightened out the dock line, a friend of mine (powerboater – this distinction will become important in a minute) used all of his skills to tie the 150 pound magnet to the end of the dock line.

As I slowly eased the magnet over the edge of the dock I learned my third magnet lesson. Floating docks have a great deal of metal below the waterline. Since the water is rather opaque, I had not noticed the brace
10’ below the waterline that ran between the ends of the finger piers to keep them from floating apart. Having no eyes and an unnatural attraction to large quantities of metal, my magnet did not suffer from the same handicap and firmly stuck to the brace.

The fourth lesson I learned is to never let a power boater tie a knot on something that is going anywhere near the water.

The fifth lesson (well ok I should not count this as a new lesson because I learned it with the Miata) is it TAKES 150 pounds of pulling to get the damn magnet off of a big piece of metal. YES – this was a new lesson because I was 10’ below the water, under my boat, holding my breath and pulling really hard.

My sixth lesson was learned shortly after pulling the magnet free. One should never hold onto a heavy object underwater without some immediate means of support. Luckily I was able to reattach the magnet to
the metal beam as I accelerated toward the bottom. Actually I think the magnet had more to do with this than I did.

The seventh lesson I learned is one minute is a really long time to hold ones breath.

The eighth lesson I learned is always look up when you are coming up under a boat.

The ninth lesson I learned is you really run out of air fast when you are holding your head, seeing stars, and trying to find the surface.

The tenth lesson I learned is never invite a large crowd of people to watch you try out any new piece of gear.

The eleventh lesson I learned is never leave your cooler full of cold beer on the dock with ‘friends’ on a hot day while you dive underwater (hey they were laughing at me and drinking my beer!!). I don’t care what they say, one minute is way too short of time to declare someone dead and divide up their belongings.

Now that I had the crowd warmed up, I decided to take my three-strand nylon anchor line and run it through the eyebolt of the magnet and back up to the surface. This way I would not have to risk a sudden trip to the bottom and I would not have to tie a knot underwater. Considering the day I was having this went amazingly well. It also gave those clowns on the dock a chance to get another round of drinks from my cooler

Thinking ahead, for the first time that day, I realized that the support member was attached to the dock by a vertical piece of metal. Not wanting that evil magnet to reattach itself several times to the support member while it was on the way to the surface, I climbed onto the deck of my boat. When I pulled on the line I learned my twelfth lesson of the day (second physics lesson). A three-strand nylon line has roughly the
stretching ability of a rubber band and while water has a natural resistance, it is not enough to keep a magnet from hitting the bottom of your boat on the way to the surface. I also learned that a magnet can
scratch gelcoat as fast as it will scratch a Miata.

In the end I finally got the magnet correctly tied to the line and on the bottom of the lake. After about an hour, with no beer remaining in my cooler and with only a small audience, I finally gave up on recapturing any treasure. The only thing the magnet was able to find was a great deal of rust shavings. I know the bottom of the lake under my boat is littered with all type of hardware, tools, coins, etc so I was amazed when the magnet failed to bring up even one small item. Maybe the fish are calmly swimming around with sunglasses, or they have constructed their own secret city out of all of the spare parts.

All was not lost with the magnet. My fellow boaters now play ‘hand me the wrench’ with the magnet. This is a game they devised using the magnet, a metal wrench and a dockbox with a thin top. They first take the magnet and put it on the underside of the lid to the dockbox. They then attach a wrench to the top of the dockbox and close it so everything looks normal. They then pretend to be working on their boat. When the unsuspecting target of this game walks by, they ask him to hand them the wrench. It works every time and it is amazing how hilarious my dock mates find it when a new person joins the game. They seem to get particular joy in this game when they can think of new things to stick to the dock box or when they can catch someone more than once by using different bait. They even had someone hide in the dockbox to pull the magnet away when his partner showed the victim that the wrench did not weigh 150 pounds.

The magnet also seems to be good for playing ‘throw the metal object over the magnet’, ‘the worlds largest refrigerator magnet’ (WARNING – apparently the magnet will scratch a Kenmore refrigerator as easily as it will a 1993 Mazda Miata), ‘find the car keys in your wife’s purse’, and a whole lot of other games. Hey we might not be too smart but we are easily entertained.

In the end – I guess the magnet was worth the price.

[Cottontop]

In other words, be careful with the magnet. If it clamps on to something big down there, now you've lost the magnet, too.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Cottontop

In other words, be careful with the magnet. If it clamps on to something big down there, now you've lost the magnet, too.

ROFL. Thank you for the enlightenment and joys of a 150# magnet.

I think I'm going to punt. I'm old and my hands don't want to work so well any more. (Love getting old :-P) However if someone wants a free #44 claw anchor and 150 feet of 1/2 rusted 3G 5/16" long link chain it's location is marked on the map below. Channel is 20-30 feet deep and just west of the Antioch bridge. It's sort of like a treasure hunt. Watch out for the fishing hooks in the %^&*( trees too.

I don't recommend anchoring there though....

[Tkeeth]

That magnet story is hilarious. Sounds like something i would do (according to my wife).

Anyway, I caught someones old anchor chain the other day and apparently their anchor was either much larger than mine or really really stuck. I ended up using some old spare line i had to tie on to the other side then using my main halylard, I tied on and picked up, tied off to a cleat, retied, picked up, and so on until i got it free. At the end I was left tied to the other anchor with no way to get it off as I ran around looking for a proper knife to cut the old line used.

[dlymn]

check out the very small anchors that are meant for tenders. They make great grappling hooks. I rocovered an outboard motor in 6 metres using one. once you hook the chain, walk to the back of the boat and do all of the work there maybe even with a tether on. You should be able to recover the chain etc without cutting the logs. I have seen people use halyards and booms to lift engines and so you might be able to use your winches to get some mechanical advantage, but you might need to work on the side of the boat.

[Cormorant]

SC, sorry to hear of your travails. If I wasn't so inconveniently located here on the east coast I would come aid the cause with at least one of my four chainsaws.... Surely there are some other boaters near you who would look on this sort of problem as a delightful challenge?

[ctl411]

Don't give up. Look at it as a opportunity to get a extra anchor if one is still on that line you pulled up.