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captainKJ · 13-10-2010, 06:22

The company I work for,,, under contract with chevron, exxon, and shell int he Gulf of mexico will NOT allow china shackles to be used,,, there breaking strength is less than the US shackle,,,,,,, china does not have the same quality manufacturing process or quality control that US does. China shackle have been known to fail many times lifting the same type and weight loads,,, I work on a supply vessel that services the oil rigs. The companies have VERY strict policies and testing has been done at there facilities. China made shackles might be fine most of the time but NOT all of the time,,, like when you really need them

**donradcliffe** · 13-10-2010, 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj

Actually, some of the best chain isn't made in the US, but in Italy, Germany, Canada, France, etc - there are other options besides Chinese.

We are sitting here in Grenada with 9 boats who have had their US made ACCO chain fail in less than a year. We are one of them and will be getting our new Italian Maggi chain this afternoon.

Mark

Do you mean 9 boats went on the rocks in a year, or are you talking about the ACCO chain starting to rust. After 2 years on the hook, my new ACCO chain is showing some signs of rust, which seems a bit soon, but I don't think I would consider it has failed.

**MarkJ** · 13-10-2010, 07:00

Can can distinctly remember having these same discussions 30 years ago about the crap cars the Japs were making....

... while we were slagging them off their were out-manufacturing the lot of us!

Now the manufacturing industries in our countries consist of 1 rich bugger and one quality control officer who gets lots of trips to China.

**colemj** · 13-10-2010, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Do you mean 9 boats went on the rocks in a year, or are you talking about the ACCO chain starting to rust. After 2 years on the hook, my new ACCO chain is showing some signs of rust, which seems a bit soon, but I don't think I would consider it has failed.

No boats on the rocks yet! I meant that within a year, the ACCO chain has serious rust and no longer fits the gypsy, so it has failed in usability. If yours is just showing some signs of rust after 2 years, you are much better off than the 10 of us (note that this number has increased now - I talked to a couple last night that are replacing their ACCO chain after 4 months).

Frankly, I don't know what has gone wrong with ACCO. There can't be more than 60 boats in the two bays where we are anchored here and 10 of us are getting replacement chain for less than 1 yr old ACCO that is no longer usable (ours is 18 months, but it was rusted within 6 months and we pushed it).

Acco has told several of us that they have never received a complaint about their chain and that each of us was the first(!) to bring a problem to their attention. ACCO originally requested that we send our old chain to them from Grenada at our cost for testing and if they found a problem they would give us new chain and we would pay for shipping it to us! Unbelievable.

After creating more noise with them, I must have hit a nerve somewhere because they then promised us that they would immediately ship us new chain at their cost if we still wanted it. When I accepted, they melted into the woods and I haven't been able to raise a contact from them in over a month. No answers to numerous emails, so I suppose they were just hoping I wouldn't accept and now they are hiding until I go away.

Interestingly, Peerless bought them two years ago. I've met two boaters down here with >2yr old ACCO chain that is in great condition and 10 with <2yr old ACCO chain that is unusable.

All I can say is stay away from ACCO chain. Something has happened to them since they were bought by Peerless and their chain has gone from a premier product to I'd rather take my chances with random Chinese stuff from the hardware store.

Mark

**Therapy** · 13-10-2010, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

I suspect they don't make a 5/16" Crosby HT silver pin. Unless you get larger welded end links for your 1/4" chain you're limited to a load rated standard shackle like the Crosby red pin rated 1500 pounds WLL SHACKLE ANCHOR 5/16" USA LOAD RATED RED PIN 105399

... or orange pin made by CM

GALVANIZED ANCHOR SHACKLE 5/16" USA

That is what I figured.
Galvanized is fine with me.

And I forgot the working load of my 1/4 HT too.

And the breaking strength.

I thought I wrote down all of it. Anchor, chain, swivel, shackle, rope - but can't find it.

**delmarrey** · 13-10-2010, 18:42

First it was baby formula, then pet food, but now you
should watch out when buying bright, shiny ammunition
from China.

A guy came into the police department the other
day to ask a favor. He had a S&W 629 (.44 Mag)
that he wanted to dispose of after a mishap at the
range.

He said there was a loud bang when he tested
his new ammo (Chinese made), and the gun
smacked him in the forehead, leaving a nice gash.
When the tweety birds cleared from around his
head, the pictures show what he saw.

Bet he never uses Chinese made ammo again!
Looks like when the round in the chamber went
off, it also set off at least two other rounds in
adjacent cylinders. I would have hated to be
the one that pulled the trigger on that one!

.

**Therapy** · 13-10-2010, 18:50

Chinese gun?

**cat man do** · 13-10-2010, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by delmarrey

A guy came into the police department the other
day to ask a favor.
.

Really?

A guy came into the police department the other day to ask a favor - Google Search.

The first link makes no mention of chinese ammo or gun, but it does say

Quote:

This is what happens when dumbasses try to reload their own ammo. Too many people intentionally load their ammo too hot to see just how far they can push the envelope. The manuals say "NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS" for a reason.

**delmarrey** · 13-10-2010, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by cat man do

Really?

A guy came into the police department the other day to ask a favor - Google Search.

The first link makes no mention of chinese ammo or gun, but it does say

I just luv nay sayers!

Put on your glasses.

.

**cat man do** · 13-10-2010, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by delmarrey

I just luv nay sayers!

As much as I luv those who throw mud at other countries without actual evidence to back it up?

Quote:

This one has been making the rounds on the Errormet for a couple of years or more now. It has various first- or second-person reports (e.g., "a guy brought this into my gun store today...") and is sometimes stated as "the gun had only six rounds through it when it blew up." The "Chinese ammo" is a relatively new twist.

In all likelihood, this was a reloading failure.

I am unaware of any CHINESE ammo imported commercially into the USA. Yugoslavian, Israeli, Bulgarian, Russian, Italian, German... but Chinese? I haven't even seen any Chinese milsurp ammo here. Can anyone else confirm the presence of any Chinese ammo here, of ANY caliber, much less that uniquely American .44 Mag?

Exactly what I was thinking. What is this "Chinese ammo?" Brand name? No information here that would normally be instantly included in such a case as this. I have never seen any Chinese-made ammo here.

Seems to me a thin cover up for a reloading failure.

Chinese Ammo Causes Big Bang?

Of course this may be a bullshit story as well, but it certainly sounds more plausible than Chinese ammo for a distinctly American gun.

If it was a 9mm round for a Norinco pistol or a round for an assault rifle I may not be so sceptical.

Quote:

Put on your glasses.

Take off your blinkers

**rebel heart** · 13-10-2010, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj

No boats on the rocks yet! I meant that within a year, the ACCO chain has serious rust and no longer fits the gypsy, so it has failed in usability. If yours is just showing some signs of rust after 2 years, you are much better off than the 10 of us (note that this number has increased now - I talked to a couple last night that are replacing their ACCO chain after 4 months).

Frankly, I don't know what has gone wrong with ACCO. There can't be more than 60 boats in the two bays where we are anchored here and 10 of us are getting replacement chain for less than 1 yr old ACCO that is no longer usable (ours is 18 months, but it was rusted within 6 months and we pushed it).

Acco has told several of us that they have never received a complaint about their chain and that each of us was the first(!) to bring a problem to their attention. ACCO originally requested that we send our old chain to them from Grenada at our cost for testing and if they found a problem they would give us new chain and we would pay for shipping it to us! Unbelievable.

After creating more noise with them, I must have hit a nerve somewhere because they then promised us that they would immediately ship us new chain at their cost if we still wanted it. When I accepted, they melted into the woods and I haven't been able to raise a contact from them in over a month. No answers to numerous emails, so I suppose they were just hoping I wouldn't accept and now they are hiding until I go away.

Interestingly, Peerless bought them two years ago. I've met two boaters down here with >2yr old ACCO chain that is in great condition and 10 with <2yr old ACCO chain that is unusable.

All I can say is stay away from ACCO chain. Something has happened to them since they were bought by Peerless and their chain has gone from a premier product to I'd rather take my chances with random Chinese stuff from the hardware store.

Mark

I hope you're wrong; I just bought ~$1000 worth of Acco chain. We'll be staying stateside for the next couple of years so if it fails it won't be the end of the world (we won't be anywhere that remote), but I'd still like to avoid the hassle of buying and shipping more chain (oh yeah, and the thousand bucks too). I'll keep rinsing mine with fresh water when I can to keep it alive longer for whatever that's worth.

**colemj** · 14-10-2010, 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel heart

I hope you're wrong; I just bought ~$1000 worth of Acco chain. We'll be staying stateside for the next couple of years so if it fails it won't be the end of the world (we won't be anywhere that remote), but I'd still like to avoid the hassle of buying and shipping more chain (oh yeah, and the thousand bucks too). I'll keep rinsing mine with fresh water when I can to keep it alive longer for whatever that's worth.

I truly hope that yours works out well. I am speculating that something changed after Peerless bought them, so I may be wrong on that. But the rest of what I posted regarding the number of boats here with problems, the ages of the chains and the communications with Acco is just fact.

Mark

**rebel heart** · 14-10-2010, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj

I truly hope that yours works out well. I am speculating that something changed after Peerless bought them, so I may be wrong on that. But the rest of what I posted regarding the number of boats here with problems, the ages of the chains and the communications with Acco is just fact.

Mark

Don't get me wrong, I believe you. But I still hope you're wrong.

yacht_planb · 14-10-2010, 14:30

Has anyone used a hammerlink instead of a shackle? Looking at the Crosby A-1337 it is rated at 8800 WLL strength and a 22000 proof or breaking load for the 3/8". This is significantly stronger than any of the 3/8" shackles on the market. Aside from not being as easy to remove from the Chain any experience with how a hammerlock would hold up? My current issue is that I have a 2.5" max pin width constraint based on my anchor roller (the larger shackles will not clear the bow roller. I have a 7/16" G4 chain having a working load of 7700 lbs, and the shackles that fit the 2.5" requirement are not as strong as my chain, it's on 6600 WLL...The Lock-A-Loy (hammerlock) is stronger than the chain is 8800lbs vs 7700lbs..

Thoughts?

**colemj** · 14-10-2010, 18:06

I think the hammerlinks are fine strength wise and wouldn't have a problem personally using them to connect lengths of chain, but you may have a fit problem connecting them to your anchor.

Mark