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Old 25-05-2017, 01:32   #1
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Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

Yes, my curiosity is spiking again (what else is new). But hopefully to good outcome. Maybe to save some of us some money. Or perhaps our boats.

What I’m wondering is, what kind of rope do you use for your anchor rode, or have you used in the past, would you use it again or something else, why, etcetera? Be it for your primary anchor, secondary, or land lines (shore ties).
- Specifically, is/was it 3-strand, 8-plait, 12-plait, doublebraid? Why?
- Nylon, Polyester, Polypro, or other? Since Spectra’s been discussed a little bit in this application. Ditto some Polypro blends.
- Would you use it again, or switch to something else? And regardless of how you answer this, why would you make said choice?

- What size (diameter) & strength are your rodes, & how big is your boat (LOA, & Displacement)?
- Did you “discover” any techniques in using a specific rope type that were particularly helpful? That, or the reverse; meaning bad ideas?
- In a worst case scenario, like riding out a named storm or Hurricane, what rope would you ideally have? Why?

- Do you think that the ABYC rode recommendations are accurate? Too conservative? Or perhaps the reverse? Why?
- How much/how many rodes do you keep onboard? And of what length(s)? Where are they stored?
- Fiscally what do you consider to be the best choice when it comes to rope rodes? And where do you shop for them?
- Chain rodes aside, if cost isn’t part of the equation, what would you have in terms of rope rode?

- What rope rodes; types, or brands, & or, suppliers would you avoid?
- What kind of lifespan do you get with your rode(s)?
- Do you think that UV resistance is a big factor in rode lifespan?
- What else significantly lengthens or shortens rode lifespans in your experience?

And of course other relevant comments & discussion are more than welcomed. Ditto on any “categories”, or questions that I didn’t pose.
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Old 25-05-2017, 01:52   #2
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Re: Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

Oh, man,

Okay. Our chain is backed by nylon three strand. Our snubber is nylon double braid, 16 mm. It still is stretchy, when tested by enough wind. This snubber replaced an 8 plait one. The 8 plait was soft, and likely to snag on *stuff*.


We broke one of these nylon double braid 16 mm snubbers, once. We had a strong wind change, and 2 m. seas came into the anchorage, at about 45 kn. When it broke, the chain ran out backwards. It had made a very loud noise just prior to the windlass running backwards. I was on deck. I didn't like it much! [This occurred in Skeleton Bay, Tasmania.]

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Old 25-05-2017, 02:05   #3
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Re: Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

How long was the snubber which broke? And do you think that it chafed, or that the shock loads just did it in? Also, what does your boat weigh?
Thanks!
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Old 25-05-2017, 03:54   #4
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Re: Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

Nylon loses strength when wet, and can fail unexpectedly from internal heating, and is also highly vulnerable to chafe. It is stretchy and absorbs energy but you don't need that over a long rode -- better use it just for the snubber.

I have 200 meters of 7/8" polyester octoplait for my backup rode (100 meters of 1/2" chain is primary). I use I think 16mm octo for my kedge.

Eschew three strand for anchor rodes as it doesn't flake well, and it hockles. So nice to splice but that doesn't make up for the other drawbacks. Octo (AKA brait) is the perfect lay for anchor rode in my opinion. So nice to handle and flakes so naturally.

I guess Dyneema should be good for anchor rode, but I've never tried it. A snubber would be absolutely necessary since it doesn't have any weight to make catenary and hardly stretches. I don't know how you'd attach the snubber to slippery Dyneema. Maybe someone on here has some experience. But the light weight, high strength, and chafe resistance of Dyneema would be very good qualities for an anchor rode I guess.


I have a variety of snubbers for different conditions, but I don't think I've used a snubber in a couple of years. After being provoked in one of the discussions on here by an old professional mariner into defending what I thought was the absolute necessity of using a snubber with chain, I decided to find out whether I was wrong, and it turns out I WAS wrong, and there are many circumstances where a snubber is really not necessary. If the chain is heavy and long enough, you don't get anywhere near pulling the catenary out up to certain strength of conditions. Sure makes anchoring easier.


As to chain vs rope -- chain is a PITA, putting all that weight in the bow which kills upwind sailing performance. But do you really trust rope on a rocky bottom? One of the few times in the last few years I've spent the night lying to a rope rode, a fisherman got his gear tangled up in my rode in the middle of the night and I ended up with a ruined night and extensive damage to my boat. Rope rode doesn't sink as well and is more subject to that kind of accident. On top of all of that, you have to deal with chafe in strong conditions.
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Old 25-05-2017, 04:01   #5
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Re: Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
. . .
We broke one of these nylon double braid 16 mm snubbers, once. We had a strong wind change, and 2 m. seas came into the anchorage, at about 45 kn. When it broke, the chain ran out backwards. It had made a very loud noise just prior to the windlass running backwards. I was on deck. I didn't like it much! [This occurred in Skeleton Bay, Tasmania.]

Ann

If a snubber is sized correctly to do its job -- which is absorbing a lot of energy -- then it will naturally be vulnerable to internal heating and sudden failure.

One of my pet peeves, and some people will be right sick of my going on and on about it, is cruisers using snubbers as the only connection of the chain to the boat. Don't do it!!! Why use chain with breaking strength of x, and connect it to the boat with something with 1/4 or 1/5 x??? It makes no logical sense whatsoever -- weakest link and all that. All the more (!!!) because of the sudden failure modes of nylon. Snubbing and belaying are two completely different jobs, requiring completely different solutions. ALWAYS belay the chain using a method which is as strong as the chain, separate from the snubber, not subject to chafe.

Thanks for the beautiful illustration of this point.
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Old 25-05-2017, 04:33   #6
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Re: Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

5/8" 8-plait braid, spliced to a leading 25' length 5/16" chain. 42' nominal length, 35K gross tons, approx 28K displacement.

Mostly-rope rode is because of the significant mud in our area, and that cleans off the rope easier/faster than it does off (and out of) the leading chain links.

Brait partly because it was the recommendation from the windlass manufacturer/dealer (for running through the gypsy well), partly because it falls nicely into the locker, partly because the dealer made me a package, partly because I've used 3-strand before and find it a bit abrasive.

All good, so far. Only very slight drawback is that the chain counter doesn't come close to counting brait accurately... but it was easy to mark at various lengths with zip ties. (Doubt it would count any other rope type accurately either.)

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Old 25-05-2017, 04:54   #7
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Re: Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

Boat: 31' ten-ton cutter.
Line: 3-strand NE Ropes nylon, 3/4" dia.
Snubbers: any old 5/8" three-strand, rolling-hitched to chain, or prussiked to nylon.

Chain for primary rode, never run out of chain yet. Nylon for kedge, usually set out to the limit of the 200' length. I'd love to have octo, but the budget didn't allow. However, no matter what line you buy, it oughtta be a good marine brand (I've caught heat for saying this before, but had enough experience with hardware store garbage and cheap canadian braid to stand by it).

Dockhead is right. Always belay your primary rodes as though you weren't using a snubber. Having snapped two snubbers in a violent storm, I now often have a backup to the snubber, as well, when things might get squirrelly.

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Old 25-05-2017, 06:00   #8
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Re: Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

I have 16 mm octo nylon for my 8 ton 40 footer as a kedge. I have always lusted after it, and luckily I picked up 100 meters very cheap, unused in a very nice custom bag. Its lovely to use, so much nicer than old hard 3 strand nylon I am used to, but it is very soft and easy to snag. I hope in time it will settle in and firm up a tad. All new nylon seems too soft. And before long it seems to go very stiff. Hopefully my nylon 8 plait will find a happy medium. One other issue with it is the amount of water it holds and the time it takes to dry out.

For shorelines I have come to really like 3 strand polyolefin rope. It handles nicely, it is cheap and doesn't hold lots of water. However not much stretch and floats are disadvantages for anchoring in many cases but both would help reduce chafe on the seabed. Some of the high strength blends and fibres are very strong. And they just dont seem to harden up like polyesters and nylon ropes can.

I have lots of 18mm high strength polyolefin rope on hand and I might start using it for anchor rope and save the nylon for when it's stretch is really needed.

Id love to try 8 braid polyester, and dyneema for an anchor line. But they are expensive.
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Old 25-05-2017, 07:35   #9
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Re: Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

Used to use 5/8" 3-strand nylon and 60' 5/16" chain. Just made a new rode of 1/2" sta-set, with the first 20' having an extra dyneema cover, with the 60' of chain. I know, I'm a rebel! I use 40' bridles of dynamic climbing rope, but I also got some nylon octo I'm going to try.
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Old 25-05-2017, 07:36   #10
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Re: Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

What kind of rope do you use for your anchor rode, or have you used in the past, would you use it again or something else, why, etcetera?

Be it for your primary anchor, secondary, or land lines (shore ties).

>> Both anchors. Land lines.

Specifically, is/was it 3-strand, 8-plait, 12-plait, doublebraid? Why?

>> Octoplait. Does not kink and stores more in less volume.

Polyester, Polypro, or other?

>> Polyester.

Would you use it again, or switch to something else? And regardless of how you answer this, why would you make said choice?

>> I would use the same material. It simply works well.

What size (diameter) & strength are your rodes, & how big is your boat (LOA, & Displacement)?

>> 16mm rope, boat 4t, metric, loaded. Chain 8mm, anchor 15kg. No windlass.

Did you “discover” any techniques in using a specific rope type that were particularly helpful? That, or the reverse; meaning bad ideas?

>> VERY BAD IDEA - pull up two feet and belay the slack over the original cleat.

In a worst case scenario, like riding out a named storm or Hurricane, what rope would you ideally have? Why?

>> Carbon nanotube rope, two fore two aft and two springs, tied to a dock in a lock gated marina.

Do you think that the ABYC rode recommendations are accurate? Too conservative? Or perhaps the reverse? Why?

>> I do not care. I am not American. I think their recommendations are fine. Better than EC shmuck.

How much/how many rodes do you keep onboard? And of what length(s)? Where are they stored?

>> 150ft on the main, stored in the locker shackled onto the main chain, 150 on the second anchor, stored in the locker (on deck, when cruising), 300ft spare (in two pieces) in cockpit lockers. 5 long rodes, altogether 800ft.

Fiscally what do you consider to be the best choice when it comes to rope rodes? And where do you shop for them?

>> I do not care. I want strong and reliable anchoring gear. We buy in chandleries. We shop around.

Chain rodes aside, if cost isn’t part of the equation, what would you have in terms of rope rode?

>> What we have now.

What rope rodes; types, or brands, & or, suppliers would you avoid?

>> No name ropes.

What kind of lifespan do you get with your rode(s)?

>> +15 years.

Do you think that UV resistance is a big factor in rode lifespan?

>> No.

What else significantly lengthens or shortens rode lifespans in your experience?

>> Use and abuse.

And of course other relevant comments & discussion are more than welcomed. Ditto on any “categories”, or questions that I didn’t pose.

Big hugs!
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Old 25-05-2017, 07:50   #11
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Re: Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

i use rope rode only for kedging off a shoal should i ground in remote locales. that is on a spool and brand new, bought by previous owner. is 3/4 in three strand nylon.
my primary and secondary anchors are with 5/16 chain. 100 percent chain, affixed to my bits under deck by a 3/8 yacht braid in a non stress manner.
my snubber is occasionally a length of same line--i had 2 spools-- and affixed via my hawse holes in bow to my bits, knotted(rolling hitch) to the chain below waterline.
most of the time i use a length of line that used to be docklines. i popped one-- was windy and chafed some. i added another line to that for a 3 point snubber. (need to protect my sprit in winds ).
yes wind alone will cause damages. i have watched as this occurs and find the results entertaining.
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Old 25-05-2017, 08:37   #12
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Re: Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

For my Cal 28 - 20' chain, 75' of 3 strand 5/8" nylon... but mostly I anchor in less than 15' of water over sandy mud, so this is somewhat overkill. I also always use garden hose chafe guards.
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Old 25-05-2017, 09:25   #13
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Re: Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

Me, 25' 5/16" chain, the rest 5/8" 3 strand nylon. Fire hose chafing gear where it does out the chock. Usually no snubber. No windlass, just good ol "Norwegian Steam". Sometimes I will belay with a piece of 5/8" so as to avoid problems with the anchor rode made fast to a cleat shock loading. If the belay parts, I still got the rode intact and I can renew the belay. Some 1/2" back aft for a stern "lunch hook" anchor with 8' chain. With more chain for a deeper catenary, the stretch of nylon isn't needed. I like the chafe resistance of 3 strand. Good swivel is important with 3 strand. 3 strand is economical, too, and hockling is minimal with decent rope and decent care. With more money I might look at nicer rode, and with a bigger boat I might go all chain. Cant beat all chain, if the boat will carry it.
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Old 25-05-2017, 10:04   #14
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Re: Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

We have a coil of 3 strand 3/4 inch nylon hanging in the forepeak but, with 50 fathoms of 1/2 inch chain, the nylon rode has never been used.
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Old 25-05-2017, 11:45   #15
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Re: Rope Rode - What Type (do you have)? What would you prefer?

If you have to go with line, Buy THE best plaited anchor line you can. It stays soft and is stronger than 3 strand. However, It may not give as much. I've never checked it. If you can afford it, go all chain. I have 245' of 5/16" chain on my personal boat, a 2006 Catalina 350 with a 45# rocna and of course bitter end is tied with nylon so can be cut if needed. The other side has a 25# bruce, with 50' of chain and 200' of regular nylon rode. For the main anchor, I always prefer a boat I can go all chain on but honestly a lot of boats under 40' can't handle it.

Anchors, line and windlasses are areas you don't want to skimp on.
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