Rocna Versus the World

[boatman61]

[QUOTE=tdoster;1527581]Only thing for certain is the Bruce and Fortress are not going anywhere. QUOTE]

Yaaayyyyyy

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by tdoster

Sorry folks for opening a can of worms. Thank you everyone for your opinions. Only thing for certain is the Bruce and Fortress are not going anywhere. Jury is still out on what to mount to the other roller on the sprit.

May be You want to have a look at SARCA Excel. I do not know this anchor personally, but reports are good for it, and it is a chance it will fit Your bow without modifications. As far as I understand You can get Excel for reasonable price also.
Spade may fit Your bow also, but I'm not so sure about pricing.

Regards

Tomasz

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by tdoster

....

I would have to ditch both the Bruce and plow as I would have to modify the sprit to accept the odd shape of the Rocna, and probably loose the ability to store two anchors on the bow.

Tomasz raises an interesting suggestion.

If I were you I would definitely consider either:

substituting an Excel for your current plow so you can still keep the Bruce on the bow alongside it ...

... or if your plow is a genuine CQR and you enjoy experimentation on wacky ideas which just MIGHT work, you could see what happens if you jam the hinge in the straight ahead location. (It should hold better, the interesting question is: how well will it set?)

They're such a strong anchor it seems a shame not to at least give it a try

It seems possible that's the only thing stopping them being roughly as good as, say, a Delta.

I'm going to give it a try myself, but it's a while away.
I currently have plenty of anchors, but no boat.

[JonJo]

I'd go a bit further

Its not how well it sets with care and attention - its whether it resets, should that event occur, when you are either asleep or ashore.

Jonathan

[charlesosgood]

Our 110# Bruce anchoring our 30 ton ketch over a 5 year circumnavigation where we seldom used marinas is a pretty good source of experience using a Bruce. We dragged once after setting get and that was due to thin sand over rock- everyone dragged that night. We did learn to be patient in grass but could set after a couple of tries. That doesn't mean there's not a better anchor but the Bruce is a good anchor.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by sneuman

The CQR, IMHO, represents the pinnacle of anchoring technology for sandy/muddy bottoms. One or another of the new fangled anchors might be a bit better in some situations, but it's mostly just fancy marketing at this point.

"Ditching" a good plow (CQR) or Bruce would be expensive and silly ... again ... IMHO.

What happens is this: you anchor in a blow and whatever anchor you put down that held without dragging suddenly becomes "the best anchor." If it was a Ronca, then you're a convert ... but quite probably a good-ole CQR would have served just as well. Since you didn't do a side-by-side comparison and because each anchoring situation is unique, you never really have good data -- just a hunch.

It becomes more myth and religion than science.

I've spent over 3000 nights at anchor, and I can tell you that its a lot more science than myth. If I got a new boat with a CQR or Bruce, I would ditch it immediately. In fact, when I borrowed the Grand Banks 42 to do the Great Loop my first purchase was a Manson Supreme and the CQR went off the boat.

[jack2]

Not exactly the same topic but an anchor question none the less. Is there any reason to carry a 35 lb CQR along with a 44 lb spade and a 30 lb Danforth? Cruising Maine this year, and the Baltic soon after. The question is more about number rather than anchor type. The boat is an Ohlson 38 so space is a real limiting factor.
Thanks

[charlesosgood]

Originally Posted by jack2

Not exactly the same topic but an anchor question none the less. Is there any reason to carry a 35 lb CQR along with a 44 lb spade and a 30 lb Danforth? Cruising Maine this year, and the Baltic soon after. The question is more about number rather than anchor type. The boat is an Ohlson 38 so space is a real limiting factor.
Thanks

Lots of good anchorages in Maine so unless caught in a hurricane 3 anchors are not needed. Don't know about the Baltic.

[boatman61]

Always good to have a spare... never know if you'll have to abandon one for some reason.. and not be able to recover it..
Would not dream of sailing anywhere new with just one anchor.

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by charlesosgood

Lots of good anchorages in Maine so unless caught in a hurricane 3 anchors are not needed. Don't know about the Baltic.

Spade + Danforth = good set for Baltic, but the 30 lb Danforth may be slightly on the small side for Baltic mooring (bow to the rocks)

Best regards

Tomasz

[redsky49]

Over the 2012-2013 winter I had the opportunity to essentially repeat the ICW/ Bahamas trip I originally made in 2006/2007, same boat, same or similar anchorages, but with different anchors.

This experience allowed me a perspective of the relative merits of the CQR vs. the Rocna.

With the CQR I noted that the anchor took much longer to set, with the plow generally taking a minimum of ten(?) feet to set (on average), and occasionally refusing to set entirely (Slaughter Harbor in the Berry Islands being an example). Backing down on the CQR required a gentle hand on the throttle or the anchor would just plow a furrow. Once truly set, the anchor would generally hold well, but sometimes would move a noticeable distance and reset, or sometimes just slowly move under tension of the rode.

The Rocna was a marked difference in several areas. The anchor will set with the smallest of scopes; 2-1 or less! And the anchor sets quickly, diving down into the bottom material in just a couple of feet where it will bring you to an abrupt halt. In a sandy bottom, it will bury to the top of the hoop or more.

The Rocna is not perfect and I have had an issue with reeds/grass and the occasional accumulation of sticky mudballs which required clearing the anchor and trying again. It also can be a bear to recover if it is really set well. It doesn't want to let go. Only once did I have an issue with it not setting (it would drag under moderately heavy reverse throttle), and moving my location a hundred feet solved that.

I will also note that the Rocna was not my first choice. I had originally purchased a Manson Supreme, but it fit so poorly on my bow roller that I returned it and purchased the Rocna. The Rocna fits quite well in my bow roller that was originally designed (I believe) for the CQR.

My wife noticed the difference in the two anchors performance after the first or second time we used the Rocna, having seen the bow drop noticeably when the hook set. I know she sleeps better with the Rocna.

I don't claim that the Rocna is the best, and quite likely there are better anchors out there. But I will attest to the experiences we have had, and that I find the Rocna to be far superior to the CQR it replaces. For the record, I also carry a Danforth Hi-Tensile and big Fortress, but the Rocna is my everyday kit.

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

May be You want to have a look at SARCA Excel. I do not know this anchor personally, but reports are good for it, and it is a chance it will fit Your bow without modifications. As far as I understand You can get Excel for reasonable price also.
Spade may fit Your bow also, but I'm not so sure about pricing.

Regards

Tomasz

Yes, the Excel would be a good option. They aren't distributed in the US, though, and the cost to ship them is more than the anchor itself. Occasionally, a group will get together and buy a bunch of them to bring the shipping costs down.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

I've spent over 3000 nights at anchor, and I can tell you that its a lot more science than myth. If I got a new boat with a CQR or Bruce, I would ditch it immediately. In fact, when I borrowed the Grand Banks 42 to do the Great Loop my first purchase was a Manson Supreme and the CQR went off the boat.

OK, so connect the dots ... your experience with the CQR and/or Bruce was unsatisfactory? If so, under what conditions? Have you tested your Manson Supreme under similar circumstances?

I really just want to know. But, the problem is that a collection of anecdotes does not equal data, and so far no one has shown me an independent, controlled, side-by-side comparison. That's what I'd like to see.

Otherwise, the stories about how I anchored in 50kts. and it held (my own included with the CQR) are still closer to the post hoc argument, ala: "I prayed to God to save me from the storm and I survived; therefore God saved me from the storm."

Really, I'm not trying to be stubborn, I just need solid evidence to be convinced. I never have been one to believe things on hearsay or faith.

[sneuman]

[QUOTE=Stu Jackson;1527375]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Yes, it appears you are missing the reading part. Or the looking at the videos.

Yes, it's a Catalina forum, but what does that have to do with it?

The text and comparisons are by a very well respected mariner who lives in Maine and has posted here as well as on many other boating forums.

You asked for independent testing. He's independent.

No. The forum is simply the reflexive of what we're doing here.
No. The video is asking me to sign my name to watch it. It might be valuable, but I won't do that.

[susan238]

We love our Rocna, but wanted to have a second anchor on the anchor rollers. It took some time to figure out how to fit it, but we have a fortress stored backwards on the anchor rollers.