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Old 06-07-2013, 17:59   #91
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Re: Rocna Repositioned

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Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
Thorcat,
So what then is your take on the Boss?
I know you didn't ask me, but I did see one today at West Marine. What struck me was that it was humongous, almost comically so. The 60 pound looked to me to be about the same size as my 176# Ultra, so I can't imagine what a 175 pound Boss would look like on my bow. It also has a really, really thin shank when compared even to the Supreme, so I have a hard time seeing how this anchor isn't going to pose some real issues with shank bending, even though it is Q690 steel. However, I can see how it would dig in well and with that amount of surface area would hold as well as you could ask for.

It will be interesting to see if they change the shank dimensions in the future, or whether damaged Boss anchors start being reported.
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Old 06-07-2013, 18:27   #92
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Re: Rocna Repositioned

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Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
I know you didn't ask me, but I did see one today at West Marine. What struck me was that it was humongous, almost comically so. The 60 pound looked to me to be about the same size as my 176# Ultra, so I can't imagine what a 175 pound Boss would look like on my bow. It also has a really, really thin shank when compared even to the Supreme, so I have a hard time seeing how this anchor isn't going to pose some real issues with shank bending, even though it is Q690 steel. However, I can see how it would dig in well and with that amount of surface area would hold as well as you could ask for.

It will be interesting to see if they change the shank dimensions in the future, or whether damaged Boss anchors start being reported.
Thanks for your opinion.
Funny you say "almost comical" as that has been the impressions of others.
I think some sailors chuckle slightly when they see a Boss anchor.
It has been my suspicion since day one that the Boss was designed intentionally to suit the market of not only power boaters but for sailboaters that have the bowsprit issue that won't accept the Manson Supreme. I have a Westsail 32 and the Supreme wont fit.
I want a Supreme for my boat but may get a Boss but worry that I'm getting played a little.
Currently I have 2 CQR's hanging on my bowsprit (35 and 45lb).
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Old 06-07-2013, 19:07   #93
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Re: Rocna Repositioned

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Thanks for your opinion.
Funny you say "almost comical" as that has been the impressions of others.
I think some sailors chuckle slightly when they see a Boss anchor.
It has been my suspicion since day one that the Boss was designed intentionally to suit the market of not only power boaters but for sailboaters that have the bowsprit issue that won't accept the Manson Supreme. I have a Westsail 32 and the Supreme wont fit.
I want a Supreme for my boat but may get a Boss but worry that I'm getting played a little.
Currently I have 2 CQR's hanging on my bowsprit (35 and 45lb).
I suspect that you would be quite a lot happier with a Boss than the CQRs. One thing it has going for it is that if you buy it at West Marine, the manufacturer's lifetime warranty means you have someplace to take it back to if you see any issues with the shank. I bought a Rocna to cut it up and see what kind of steel it was made of and took it back to West Marine in a bucket on the basis that it didn't match the advertised steel quality. They refunded my money. Cheerfully, even. Generally a fine store if a bit pricey, and they are everywhere.
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Old 06-07-2013, 20:13   #94
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Re: Rocna Repositioned

Ignoring the thinness of the Boss shank, the jury seems still to be out.

There is a school of thought that suggests anchor recommendation spread sheets are conservative and that one should use an anchor 2 sizes bigger than the spreadsheets suggest.

There is also a school of thought that says anchor performance is a function of design (obviously) and surface area.

I do not know if the two schools of thought overlap.

But we appear to have an anchor, in the Boss, that meets this requirement, large surface area. It might look comical but its actually what the first school of thought advocates.

I have not checked the Boss but when I compare our recommended sized Fortress against a recommended sized Excel the Fortress is about 30% bigger (in terms of surface area). It would be interesting to compare the Boss surface area against the Fortress - sized for the same yacht.

Jonathan
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Old 06-07-2013, 20:34   #95
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Here is a picture of a 60lb Boss, the guy towing the cart is a 250lb guy.
And also a picture of the same anchor hanging from a Westsail 32.
I was thinking I really only need the 45 pounder as I have good luck not dragging anchors, besides I'd like to have room for 2 anchors up there and it doesn't seem possible with that 60 pounder. In fact I better check before I buy to see if the 45 pounder will leave enough room for a second.

The Boss is a big sucker, aint it?

These pictures are from a great blog called "Sundowner Sails Again".
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Old 06-07-2013, 21:10   #96
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Re: Rocna Repositioned

I had not thought about it prior but that anchor will be really interesting when the Westsail hits a few breaking seas?

Jonathan
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Old 06-07-2013, 21:53   #97
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Re: Rocna Repositioned

Darn I would hate to try and find a place to stow those big arse Boss anchors, when I want to put it away to go offshore !! I would sure trip over it cus it won't lay flat like my old danforth !! LOL
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:24   #98
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Re: Rocna Repositioned

To be fair, that anchor on the W32 is twice the recommended size for that boat. The 60lb model is recommended for 45-55' boats. Manson's recommendations are pretty conservative.

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Old 07-07-2013, 08:28   #99
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Re: Rocna Repositioned

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJo View Post
Ignoring the thinness of the Boss shank, the jury seems still to be out.

There is a school of thought that suggests anchor weight recommendation spread sheets are conservative and that one should use an anchor 2 sizes bigger than the spreadsheets suggest.

There is also a school of thought that says anchor performance is a function of design (obviously) and surface area.

I do not know if the two schools of thought overlap.

But we appear to have an anchor, in the Boss, that meets this requirement, large surface area. It might look comical but its actually what the first school of thought advocates.

I have not checked the Boss but when I compare our recommended sized Fortress against a recommended sized Excel the Fortress is about 30% bigger (in terms of surface area). It would be interesting to compare the Boss surface area against the Fortress - sized for the same yacht.

Jonathan
I don't know about relative surface areas, but I do know that the weight recommendation for my vessel falls into two camps, where one set of recommendations is about half the other. This of course, makes no sense at all, but here are the sizing recommendations for Delfin - 55' and 65 t:

The 'What, Me Worry?' camp:

Manson Boss - 36 kg
Manson Supreme - 36 kg
Delta - 40 kg
Claw - 50 kg

The 'Bigger is Better Camp':

Sarca Excel - 88 kg
Super Sarca - 74 kg
Rocna - 70 kg
Ultra - 80 kg

Some manufacturers focus only on boat length (Manson), some only on displacement. Ultra seems to have the most understandable selection table, as it separates Sail, Power and Multihulls into three separate groups for recommendation, and provides a calculator for selection.

Both camps can't be right.
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Old 07-07-2013, 14:30   #100
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Re: Rocna Repositioned

It appears the 1st group are right for most sailors but those few whose cruising lifestyle means sometimes anchoring out in storms 2nd group is right.
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Old 07-07-2013, 14:48   #101
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Re: Rocna Repositioned

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Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
...the Boss was designed intentionally to suit the market of not only power boaters but for sailboaters that have the bowsprit issue that won't accept the Manson Supreme. I have a Westsail 32 and the Supreme wont fit.
I'm the other way around. I had the ~60lb Boss and as someone else mentioned it was comically large. I needed something much narrower to clear my bobstay.

The ~60lb Supreme has worked just fine, although it bangs the bobstay every now and again. I put a PVC pipe over the rod and called it good.
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Old 07-07-2013, 15:56   #102
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Re: Rocna Repositioned

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It appears the 1st group are right for most sailors but those few whose cruising lifestyle means sometimes anchoring out in storms 2nd group is right.
Perhaps so. However, we're not living on the boat yet, and I have sat through 55 knot winds in a very small cove where a dragging anchor could have meant injury and certainly a loss of the boat given the rocks, so I prefer safe to sorry.
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Old 14-07-2013, 19:14   #103
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Re: Rocna Repositioned

I've got a little 13 pound Kodiak plow. If I set it properly, it seems to work pretty well in the types of bottoms that a plow is suitable for. The problem that concerns me, is that when she gets upside down on a flat sandy bottom, she will drag just about forever without flipping right side up.

Now, if I am going to use this as a day anchor, there is no problem. I just need to set it properly & if I get a serious wind change, I need to check it. But I don't feel safe using this thing if I want to take a snooze. If she tears out after a wind shift & flips on her back, there is no telling where I might end up.

I was considering drilling a few 1/4" holes in her & mounting a hoop on top so that she will be more likely to right herself. Has anyone fooled around with doing a modification like this before? Has anyone had any experience with Kodiak plows?

Comments for or against this idea are welcomed.

Thanks,
Jim
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Old 16-07-2013, 16:02   #104
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Re: Rocna Repositioned

I had expected that last question of mine to generate at least a few responses. I guess that the people on this board don't mess around with modifying their own kit as much as I would have expected. That sort of surprises me. Sailors usually tend to be a resourceful lot.
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Old 16-07-2013, 16:27   #105
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Re: Rocna Repositioned

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Originally Posted by pbiJim View Post
I've got a little 13 pound Kodiak plow. If I set it properly, it seems to work pretty well in the types of bottoms that a plow is suitable for. The problem that concerns me, is that when she gets upside down on a flat sandy bottom, she will drag just about forever without flipping right side up.

Now, if I am going to use this as a day anchor, there is no problem. I just need to set it properly & if I get a serious wind change, I need to check it. But I don't feel safe using this thing if I want to take a snooze. If she tears out after a wind shift & flips on her back, there is no telling where I might end up.

I was considering drilling a few 1/4" holes in her & mounting a hoop on top so that she will be more likely to right herself. Has anyone fooled around with doing a modification like this before? Has anyone had any experience with Kodiak plows?

Comments for or against this idea are welcomed.

Thanks,
Jim
]

Jim, have a read of this posting of ours
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1279748

While that thread is about the shank length the main point is that by altering any anchor you alter the balance of it and the result is that it does not work as well as intended.

By simply welding a roll bar on your Kodiak ( which appears to be similar to a Delta) you will seriously change the balance with more weight placed at the back of the blade and it probably wont set at all.
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