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Old 22-08-2008, 13:37   #1
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Raya Anchor

Another new anchor that looks interesting -

http://www.ancoralatina.com/acolhime...me%20page.html

Your thoughts?
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Old 22-08-2008, 14:30   #2
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Looks very much like the Spade Ocens.
Wonder if this is the same company that used to make the Bruce knock-off that is very common here in Brasil?
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Old 22-08-2008, 15:04   #3
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I contacted them and for a 46' cat, approx 10 tons they recommend the Raya 1300 which weighs 18kg and costs $540. This recommendation assumes 60kts of wind. If this anchor pans out it could be just the thing for a weight sensiive boat on a budget.
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Old 22-08-2008, 15:39   #4
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Yeh... I agree with Mike. If this anchor rotates OK with no roll bar and what appears is not much extra weight on the tip then I'd say it would be an improvement on all the roll bar versions which take up more storage space. Certainly looks a lot like the Sword Anchor.

Cam.. who's still trying to find one that fits in a 1020 anchor well.
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Old 22-08-2008, 16:58   #5
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Mechman, I know a E1050 who we fitted a 10kg Rocna too and he's a happy puppy. So I'd be thinking a Raya 800 for a 1020 who races a bit. Not too bad having the same area and 25% less weight in the Raya. Of course the rode behind it would need to match to get the full goodness from the anchor.

I run Model 60 Alloy spades (4kg and rule legal, just ) on my 930 and are as happy as a pig in pooh. I've also run 15lb Supreme and 6 and a 10kg Rocna for a few months each for comparison purposes with equally good results. The 15lb and 6kg I felt were just a smidgen small for cruising on if caught in real ugly weather.

I'd reckon a 20lb Supreme or a 8kg Rocna would be perfect for a 930 but they don't make either, bummer. I went Spade purely due to the lighter weight when racing. I'm fitting a Raya 600 and will run it through our test spots over a few months. It is a bit under recommended size but that way we can overload it easier to what happens. I'm expecting very good results all the same.

And I've just got my new anchor test rig sorted. A pile of instruments all connected to a laptop with data logging and all portable. Now all I need is some crap weather, a bottle of rum and a few hours sitting out in it and I'll have some real world 'non-calculated' data on what the real loads are. The rig will give loads on the rodes, wave action loads, windage loads, show any movement of the anchor during it all, a few other good things and all loads/speeds will be the actual real life loads. Some of the limited testing we have done to date shows the loads to be considerably lower than many would think. So far lined up a 31ft lightweight low windage yacht, a 60ft steel cruising monster ketch, a medium size tug boat (big blunt bow good for wave action related data) and a 46ft multi-storied fizz nasty. Will be interesting to look at that lot when done.

Note: The idea is to get 'everyday' boaters data rather than extreme hurricane type stuff as 99% of boaters just aren't out there in that. So at this stage we are wanting 40-50kts and waves.

The best bit is I'm 99% sure I'll be able to shoot down one anchor makers claims (not Raya) that their new beast will hold 60% higher loads than the Rocna or Supreme. There is just no way I can see how it can especially as it's based off the old school thinking. Yes more bullshit anchor maker marketing I'll have to correct

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The anchor maker marketers worse nightmare
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Old 22-08-2008, 18:11   #6
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Is it just me or does the shaft look too far forward?

Wouldn't this have a tendency to pull the narrowest part of the blade out compared to if further back, the broadest?

Not that I have any real idea, just looks a bit off

Note that the smaller anchor seems to bave a larger area out the back than the larger anchor?






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Old 22-08-2008, 18:35   #7
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Ah ha, another anchor to add to the breadth, but I suspect not the depth, of anchoring dscussions .

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Old 22-08-2008, 21:08   #8
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It's all about angles and pressure CatMan. While the shank may appear forward a far bit (and it is compared to many), it all comes back to centres of effort and angles off, sort of thing.

The other new designs have shanks further forward than to old ones and it certainly doesn't hurt their performance.

MLO, great way to fill in a wet afternoon though And it's heading at you, store up a few vids for Sunday.
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Old 22-08-2008, 22:00   #9
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OK, this one has Alain written all over it. The creativity, engineering thoughtfulness and similarity to the Spade, Sword and Oceane reeks of Alain. It's also from South America - where Alain happens to live.

I never thought he would leave the business (and writing an excellent book does not count as being in the business). So am I channeling Oliver Stone here?

If you are out there Alain, come clean...

Mark
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Old 22-08-2008, 22:23   #10
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Alain signed a non-competition agreement with the new owners of Spade when he left. He is retired from the anchor game and just enjoying life afloat. But your conclusion is a very easy one to make Mark.

Just a case of a great mind setting the benchmark. Bit like Henry Ford didn't have input into the Ferrari Enso even though they both made cars with 4 wheels

....... Or was his name really Henry Enso Ford....
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Old 22-08-2008, 22:46   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post

And I've just got my new anchor test rig sorted. A pile of instruments all connected to a laptop with data logging and all portable. Now all I need is some crap weather, a bottle of rum and a few hours sitting out in it and I'll have some real world 'non-calculated' data on what the real loads are. The rig will give loads on the rodes, wave action loads, windage loads, show any movement of the anchor during it all, a few other good things and all loads/speeds will be the actual real life loads. Some of the limited testing we have done to date shows the loads to be considerably lower than many would think. So far lined up a 31ft lightweight low windage yacht, a 60ft steel cruising monster ketch, a medium size tug boat (big blunt bow good for wave action related data) and a 46ft multi-storied fizz nasty. Will be interesting to look at that lot when done.

Note: The idea is to get 'everyday' boaters data rather than extreme hurricane type stuff as 99% of boaters just aren't out there in that. So at this stage we are wanting 40-50kts and waves.

The best bit is I'm 99% sure I'll be able to shoot down one anchor makers claims (not Raya) that their new beast will hold 60% higher loads than the Rocna or Supreme. There is just no way I can see how it can especially as it's based off the old school thinking. Yes more bullshit anchor maker marketing I'll have to correct

GMAC:

I look forward to seeing some of the data on your anchor testing, especially actual loads on the rode as the wind and waves increase.

What anchor manufacturer claims a 60% load improvement over Spade and Rocna?
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Old 22-08-2008, 23:09   #12
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GMAC:

I look forward to seeing some of the data on your anchor testing, especially actual loads on the rode as the wind and waves increase.

What anchor manufacturer claims a 60% load improvement over Spade and Rocna?
Us too.

An Aussie.
It's just another case of the inferiority complex they have when stacked next to a Kiwi we suspect

Needless to say if the anchor does indeed do that I will be exceptionally impressed but I just can't see how it can. It's just a slightly tickled Delta foot on a Spade shank. And not to mention who the hell needs such bigger loads, it's not like we are all going to be happy using 2kg anchors on our 40fters.

But as I told another anchor maker of a sometimes stroppy nature - "before you launch into it, wait until the waste line challenged lady verbalises, many said the same thing about your anchor until it got out there".

The Raya is different story. It does hold big and it's easy to see why.
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Old 23-08-2008, 20:27   #13
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Raya post

[Note: I believe that I erred when I removed this post, and so am restoring it to the thread. I have made a few minor edits (in blue), but it remains essentially as initially written. I appreciate Ancora Latina's interesting and valuable contributions to this thread, and apologize for being a bit over-zealous. Cheers, Hud ]



Hi all,


We have developed this specific anchor to answer the specific anchoring conditions we have here in Brazil.

The main anchoring problem we have, is that usually the best protected anchorages are located into river mouths.. (We have very few ports and marinas.) with 180° changing (strong) currents with the tide, and this anchor has also been developed for extreme conditions present in the Far South, Patagonia and even Antarctica. In extreme conditions, we need only “the Best”..

The concave shape of the anchor is a relatively new concept developed by the Spade. The heavily weighted tip is a good concept for penetration.. but also more weight at the tip means less surface area and less holding.

We have also designed the RAYA to have a heavy tip, less than the Spade (at ≈ 50 %) and around 34 to 37%, which is (with the exception of the Spade) the most heavy tip weight repartition. If we have less tip weight than the Spade, on the other way, we have a sharper tip and much more ( +162% ) fluke surface area:

This characteristic means that for the same anchor weight, the holding of the RAYA would be about twice the holding of a standard anchor, or for the same anchor size, the weight at the bow would be half for the RAYA anchor.


This concept is also used by all NZ anchors, but :

The shape of the fluke of some NZ anchors is a portion of cylinder. Technically, this shape is easy to manufacture with a cheap rolling machine, but it has a big draw back.. more we go toward the tip, more the penetration angle of the edge will increase.. being too vertical near the tip – bad feature for the penetration, and in weedy bottoms or hard sand, the NZ anchor will have problems to penetrate..

Due to the folding construction of the fluke of it’s closest competitor, it has a better penetrating angle, the weight repartition at the tip is better with around 30% of the total anchor weight, but, as both don’t have enough weight at the tip, both should have a “BSH” at the back part of the fluke ( BSH = Big Stupid Hoop) in order to turn itself in the right penetrating position.

This “BSH” concept is not new and has already been patented by Peter Bruce in year 1973, but never used before the Bügel anchor..
The BSH has three draw back, first it will reduce the possibility of penetration of the anchor, second, it add some more weight at the back of the anchor.. wrong place, and third, if all users of the “New gen” anchors are very satisfied with their anchor, all are complaining that it bring up a large amount of sea material, wedged by the “BSH”.

[Photo deleted]

Now what are the differences with the RAYA anchor?

- The shape of the fluke of the RAYA is a “portion of cone”.
Big difference, the lateral penetrating angle of the edge is always the same between the “ears” and the tip.

Due to the specific shape of the anchor, and to the efficient weight distribution, the RAYA anchor is the only anchor which has only two stable resting positions, the right and the left penetrating position and doesn’t need any BSH.

- Thanks to the sharp tip, to the right penetrating angle, to the good weight repartition and to the only two stable resting positions, the RAYA anchor will have the best chances to penetrate quickly, even in the most extreme conditions.

- As its penetration will be better, its holding will be at least as good, and even better than the one of the BSH anchors.

- Due to the absence of BSH, when weighting the anchor, the fluke is self cleaning and will not bring up the entire sea bottom..

Some more questions??
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Old 24-08-2008, 03:48   #14
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Hmm, looks intersting, tall claims and all.

Looking forward to the comparison tests, this anchor should top all the others according to their home page.
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Old 25-08-2008, 01:05   #15
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Don't you just love that 'BSH' Nice name AL.

And what's more I've been saying the same thing for a while. The BSH's do cause many issues, mostly fitting to boats and they just aren't a plus for setting performance. One of the ones here does seem to suffer more 'muck grabbing' than the other and 90% of that is BSH related.

BSH, did I mention I love that name Heard it called all sorts of things but that's the best by a long way. Many think it is just a carrying handle to make it easier to move to the boat.
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