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Old 29-08-2008, 23:32   #31
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Thanks Grant, that was far more detailed than I expected, it is interesting how the anchor scene is developing, I guess that for my replacement back up anchor Supreme is still the one. Will look in next time when I'm in auck. Unfortunately all the black Holdens have been stolen from up here, gone west someone said.
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Old 30-08-2008, 00:54   #32
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Just so happened I was interested myself so had a look yesterday and combined that with an educated guess.
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Old 30-08-2008, 01:10   #33
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I hope this photo will answer your question? You can see that the two pulling angles (32° & 40°) are measured between the attachment point of the chain and... the center of gravity of the anchor.

The point where the shank is set doesn’t mater for holding – Why we have fixed the shank forward??
- The Raya is a very lightweight anchor, size for size, it’s about half the weight of conventional anchors, but with a huge surface area (= Holding) But weight at the tip is important for the first step of penetration (static penetration). With the design we have chosen and the fixation of the shank forward, compared to other anchors, we have one of the heaviest ballasted tip (usually between 35 and 37% of the total weight of the anchor)... (Without ballast)

- the second reason doesn’t have a relation with the holding, but more with how the anchor set on the bow roller, mostly for boats with a very vertical bow (see drawing) João NODARI
Thank you for posting and adding this usefull information on your anchor. I really welcome the participation by companies as it dramatically increases our understanding and knowledge.

I very much like the look of your anchor, and the way you have thought through the bow roller aspect.

Have you tried it on a thick kelp bed yet??
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Old 30-08-2008, 07:41   #34
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I very much like the look of your anchor, and the way you have thought through the bow roller aspect.
Have you tried it on a thick kelp bed yet??
Hi Talbot,

Thanks for your positive comments,

If designing an anchor is to think of its penetration and its holding, one should think also about all other practical aspects.

The way the anchor set on the bow roller is also a very important point. I was talking yesterday with one of our Brazilian customers; he didn’t consider that the possibility to use the anchor as a foot step to climb from the quay to the bow of the boat was a serious point, but since he has the anchor, he is using it that way and feels very happy with this feature.

Thick kelp is another problem, as no anchor will be 100% successful in Kelp.

Here in the far south, we have kelp, a lot of it called « Cachiyuyo » in Argentina and « Huiro » in Chile, it can grow to a length of 40 to 50 meters, and this is why we have designed the tip to be very sharp, to be able to cut through the weed.

In these extreme conditions, I could say that the penetration of our anchor is at least as good as the penetration of « the best »

João.
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Old 30-08-2008, 19:36   #35
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In Australia Raya and Supreme appears to be pretty much the same and as Rocna has only just got someone over there who knows but guessing at the most expensive.

.
Not suggesting for a second that the Rocna is not a great anchor, but the price for my boat at my buy price was...

Rocna 55lb $750 AUD

compared to

Manson 60lb $447AUD

These are 12 mth old priceing comparisons

Dave
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Old 30-08-2008, 21:31   #36
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Here, Burnsco is prone to dropping their pants so they have dragged the price down to about as low as you can go with the Supreme. They often pretty much give them away.
Well they haven't offered to give me 2 of them yet. In fact not even one of them .
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Old 30-08-2008, 21:37   #37
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Not suggesting for a second that the Rocna is not a great anchor, but the price for my boat at my buy price was...

Rocna 55lb $750 AUD

compared to

Manson 60lb $447AUD

These are 12 mth old priceing comparisons

Dave
That's a great price for a Rocna. Here in the states it costs 950 AUD at West Marine. (well, we don't actually buy it in AUD, but you get the idea...)

Mark
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Old 30-08-2008, 22:26   #38
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I wonder why they are so high in the US? It's not like Canada is the other side of the world. You guys got costly freight or something?

Judging by a couple of issue we have having with US companies at the moment maybe someone at West marine doesn't in fact know where Canada is. There does seem to be quite a lack of geographical knowledge by many in the US.
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Old 31-08-2008, 01:52   #39
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GMac.. I'm getting real interested in how your anchor testing goes in Issy bay.

We just spent Saturday night up there with and met up with a friend who was on his brand new French yacht. He's fairly switched on and bought a supreme owing to it's reputation. On one of his first nights away he parked up by the cliffs in Issy bay and wake up in the morning down by the Coast Guard mooring.

Maybe he picked up a paint tin... or maybe the manson needs a mud connection like the Raya.

Cam
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:41   #40
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Post by Ancora Latina restored to thread

I believe that I erred when I removed a post by Ancora Latina earlier in this thread, and after consultation with GMac, I have restored it. I have made a few minor edits, but it remains essentially as initially written. You can find it as Post #13 on page 1 of this thread.

I appreciate Ancora Latina's interesting, valuable, and "commercially restrained" contributions to this thread, and apologize for being a bit over-zealous in my never-ending quest to stamp out crass commercialization on the Forum.

Best regards,

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Old 01-09-2008, 16:36   #41
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to those querying the price differences between the NZ made anchors (Rocna and its competitor's copy) compared with Brazil, in Brazil a welder is paid around $US4-4.50/hr (equiv), so more expensive than China but alot cheaper than Western countries. In addition his steel will be produced in Brasil and he should be receiving some tax credits on his exports $'s.

It is interesting to compare the X-sect areas between Raya & Rocna from their web data, difference really appears to be in the deletion of the hoop on the Raya. Cannot help wondering if the Raya will have the same "skating" problem both Alain & Pete found when developing their respective anchors which led to the little "wings" on the edges of Spade, Sword & Rocna.
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Old 01-09-2008, 21:55   #42
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Bom Noite Marinero,

You’re perfectly right.. but then exporting to either U.S.A. or N.Z. you have to add the shipping costs..

But sorry if we keep the recipe of our good « weight / Surface area » ratio secret, I know some people who will be quite happy to copy it !.

I believe it is the Danforth who first developed a type of “Wing” in between the two symmetrical flukes, followed by the Fortress and the efficient « Mud Palms ». Spade was the first to locate the little "wings" on the back edges of the fluke, (brilliant idea).

The “standard” weight distribution on the Raya anchor is about 37% of the total anchor weight on the anchor tip, 16,2% on the extremity of the shank and about 46,8% on the back edge.

Without the little “wing”, there is a good (bad) chance that the back edge will penetrate first; but as the tip has a sharp, well adapted penetrating angle, and as the little wing has more surface area and a very precise “anti-penetration” angle (not very visible on the photos) this is the tip which penetrate first..
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Old 01-09-2008, 21:57   #43
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I believe that I erred when I removed a post by Ancora Latina earlier in this thread,
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Obrigado (thank you) Hud

João
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Old 02-09-2008, 23:59   #44
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I wonder why they are so high in the US? It's not like Canada is the other side of the world. You guys got costly freight or something?
Ouch I think I just found out why or part of why.

Just got a price on shipping 2500kg of rope from Japan to the US, Boston.
To get it from the Japanese factory onto the ship and the ship to the Boston wharf US$615.00
To get it off the ship and delivered by truck to destination, which is 19-20 miles from the wharf US$1007.00

That is nasty internal freight costs and may explain the cost of some anchors or part of it at least.

A slight drift but of interest I thought. I did get the word 'anchor' in, twice now
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Old 04-09-2008, 20:26   #45
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GMac.. I'm getting real interested in how your anchor testing goes in Issy bay.

We just spent Saturday night up there with and met up with a friend who was on his brand new French yacht. He's fairly switched on and bought a supreme owing to it's reputation. On one of his first nights away he parked up by the cliffs in Issy bay and wake up in the morning down by the Coast Guard mooring.

Maybe he picked up a paint tin... or maybe the manson needs a mud connection like the Raya.
That's common in Issy hence we use the Bay as a test spot. Generally all the non-flat anchors can struggle in there due to such a soupy bottom. We usually get best results with Danforth patterns, which are known as soft bottom lovers.

But as you mention he may have picked up something, it was quite a dumping ground for many many years and there is decaying alsorts from the war time Navy base everywhere in there.

I'll let you know how we go with our new test gear. Be close to a world 1st from what we can find out.
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