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Old 18-05-2014, 06:31   #46
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

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Originally Posted by Robin3 View Post
The 2nd pic in this pair looks like a Kobra to me, a French made copy of a Delta type , but not the real deal Simpson Lawrence original.
It easy to get anchor identification wrong. There are a lot of Delta derivatives in Europe. Anchors like the Shark are Delta copies that look like the original on another boats bow roller or set on the bottom, unless you are careful. There are certainly times when I cannot be sure if I don't see the anchor well. The best clue is often the folds in the fluke which are usually simplified, or at least different on the copies

Other anchors are a genuine attempt to improve on the Delta shape such as the Quickset, Kobra and Excel these are different enough that they are usually easy to pick.

The Kobra has a more rounded rounded shaft so if you mean the first anchor i have reproduced below I don't think it is a Kobra, but thanks for looking. The nice thing about photos is everyone can make up their own mind and just because I took the photo does not mean my assessment is correct.

The second photo is a stock photo of a Kobra showing the rounded and less deep shaft together with the more pointed blade.
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Old 18-05-2014, 09:38   #47
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

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Originally Posted by NornaBiron View Post
The following two pictures are of anchors within 150m of us, very well buried, not sure what they are as the boat owners were not on board to ask.
After asking the owners we can report that the picture that has some weed in it is of a stainless steel, 25kg Kaczirek (original design bugel), and the non weedy pic is of a 28kg, stainless steel bugel.
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Old 18-05-2014, 10:17   #48
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
It easy to get anchor identification wrong. There are a lot of Delta derivatives in Europe. Anchors like the Shark are Delta copies that look like the original on another boats bow roller or set on the bottom, unless you are careful. There are certainly times when I cannot be sure if I don't see the anchor well. The best clue is often the folds in the fluke which are usually simplified, or at least different on the copies

Other anchors are a genuine attempt to improve on the Delta shape such as the Quickset, Kobra and Excel these are different enough that they are usually easy to pick.

The Kobra has a more rounded rounded shaft so if you mean the first anchor i have reproduced below I don't think it is a Kobra, but thanks for looking. The nice thing about photos is everyone can make up their own mind and just because I took the photo does not mean my assessment is correct.

The second photo is a stock photo of a Kobra showing the rounded and less deep shaft together with the more pointed blade.
No dispute just thatI'm not sure now either, just that it doesn't look like my new 45lb Delta nor does it look the 35lb one (as best I remember it) on my last boat in the UK I'm a big Delta fan and replaced the 33lb polished stainless claw we inherited with our current boat with a new 45lb Delta bought for the USA East coast, ICW and Bahamas use and all new chain rode. We don't yet have history with the new one but did 28,000 miles of EU cruising over 14 years with the smaller 35lbs one on a 41 foot Jeanneau Sun Legende
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Old 18-05-2014, 12:21   #49
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

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Originally Posted by NornaBiron View Post
After asking the owners we can report that the picture that has some weed in it is of a stainless steel, 25kg Kaczirek (original design bugel), and the non weedy pic is of a 28kg, stainless steel bugel.
Thanks. That makes sense the Bugel also came with a ball a socket swivel (which was the inspiration for the Ultra swivel)

So a great result for the Bugel
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Old 18-05-2014, 14:44   #50
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

The bugel, one of the two founding fathers of Roll Bar anchors (Rocna/Mantus et al), has always had a pretty good wrap from its owners.
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Old 18-05-2014, 19:29   #51
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

Some good discussion and photos of real life anchoring.

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Not when anchors are being discussed

There's help for this. It's called AA, Anchorholics Anonymous. There should be a group near you.

.Take care with AA. I fear JJ has been sent there permanently.
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Old 18-05-2014, 20:28   #52
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

Gee no pic's of a Danforth ! I guess it because they mostly bury out of site with only the chain to see ! LOL Any anchor should set well in the bottom your showing in most of your pic's. I still feel safe laying to my Danforth, in sand, mud bottoms, never felt the need to get one of the new age anchors ! Maybe in the future! As long as I don't get a 180 Deg wind shift, my well set Danforth will hook me up !! Just sayin, sometimes the old stuff works well, and if ya don't set em right no anchors gonna hold !!! Just my 2 cents
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Old 19-05-2014, 08:14   #53
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Some good discussion and photos of real life anchoring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Not when anchors are being discussed

There's help for this. It's called AA, Anchorholics Anonymous. There should be a group near you.

.Take care with AA. I fear JJ has been sent there permanently.
I can not catch with You, nor I can find the noelex 77 post...

By the way, I do not think JonJo is is Anchorholic
He is irksome guy from time to time (sorry Jonathan, I owe You double malt!), but he started and run some most succesfull and interesting threads there, so he is inspirational
No ....holics of any kind are inspirational ever
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Old 19-05-2014, 08:57   #54
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Your pictures are EXACTLY what my undersized delta did two years ago. The sand, or substrate as you call it, is much different in the Med. It's very loose and light.
I think the main reason is the substrate of the Med bottom (at least in Eastern Med) looks like sand, but it is not sand. Real sand is mainly quartz.
Here You have particles of chalk, limestone, pummice, and other soft minerals amalgamated wight particles of porous parts of volcanic produce.
Completely different thing than sand made of hard minerals (even with addition of coral particles)
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Old 19-05-2014, 23:04   #55
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

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Originally Posted by bobconnie View Post
Gee no pic's of a Danforth ! I guess it because they mostly bury out of site with only the chain to see ! LOL Any anchor should set well in the bottom your showing in most of your pic's. I still feel safe laying to my Danforth, in sand, mud bottoms, never felt the need to get one of the new age anchors ! Maybe in the future! As long as I don't get a 180 Deg wind shift, my well set Danforth will hook me up !! Just sayin, sometimes the old stuff works well, and if ya don't set em right no anchors gonna hold !!! Just my 2 cents
Now there's a challenge, get down there with your camera and show us some pics!
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Old 22-05-2014, 04:38   #56
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

Another anchorage.
You can see the Mantus has again set beautifully within a couple of feet.

At the same anchorage the only other boat had a Delta.
I watched the drop and it was done in textbook fashion.

My wife took the great photo:
The Delta has only managed an average, to poor, set:

The Delta has taken a reasonable distance to partially dig in. Also, the set is more a pile-up of sand in front of the anchor. The anchor has dragged the along the sand, rather than fluke properly digging and penetrating deep into the substrate.

The Delta is a good (not great) anchor and once again you should not judge the anchor on this one set. However, this piling up of sand is common with second tier anchors. It is only ever seen in the best anchors if there is a very poor substrate like rock under a thin layer of sand which prevents the anchor penetrating. This was not the case here.

With a shift in wind direction an anchor with the appearance of this Delta is much more likely to break out rather than "shuffling" around to the new direction while remaining set. The anchor is not set deeply and there is not much substrate behind the rear of the fluke. If the direction of the force shifts significantly the anchor is likely to trip out. There is also a reasonably high risk that this anchor will drag if exposed to stronger wind.

Notice the anchor has the float wrapped around shank and more critically a stone is jammed directly under the rear of the shank. The latter may have significantly altered the performance of the anchor on this occasion.


Please note: I am not trying to imply the Delta is a bad anchor. It is a very popular anchor in the Med (hence there is likely to be lots of comparative photos) and it is good value for money. The Delta does not have the performance of the top anchors, but it is still a good anchor, better than many.
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Old 22-05-2014, 05:02   #57
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
I am not trying to imply the Delta is a bad anchor. It is a very popular anchor in the Med (hence there is likely to be lots of comparative photos) and it is good value for money. The Delta does not have the performance of the top anchors, but it is still a good anchor, better than many.
I believe most of the isuues with Delta in the Med is connected to the Lewmar's sizing chart.
Anchor chosen following the advice there is inevitably undersized by a great margin for any serious anchoring by cruising yacht.

Cheers,

Tomasz
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Old 22-05-2014, 06:52   #58
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Not quite sure how many times it needs to be said - the Excel is not a copy of or derivative of the Delta. Its covered by different patents. Sure it looks a bit like a delta, but my Triton Ute looks a bit like a V8 diesel Landcruiser ute. But thats where the similarity ends. And yes I have owned (purchased with my own money) - a Delta and an excel on the current boat, along with a few others, including a Rocna, haven't tried a Manson Boss which I would like to.
Hello Factor,

here in Europe Delta was so long and wide popular, that now almost everybody will tell about ANY convex anchor that it is of Delta shape.
Something like using Esky for the refrigerator in Your country, Hoover for vacuum cleaner in Britain and so on. One brand name appropriated the whole category in common language. And then we have Electrolux Hoover... Idiotic, but real
You know, when in Rome... I think that without a moment of thought I will tell (describing the EXCEL to somebody not knowing about it) "the new anchor of Delta shape, but much improved, great holding power...." and so on, and so on
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Old 22-05-2014, 09:21   #59
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

Ihad a 35lb Delta on my 41 ft Sun Legende and used it for 10 years without dragging even one time despite anchoring in some less than perfect places in strong winds, nor did I ever have a problem gettin it to set. That anchor was a shade lighter than I would have chosen but it came with the boat and the previous owners had used it with success in the Med for some 7 or 8 years before we bought the boat. Confidence is a huge influence and sowhen replacing the ground tackle on our new boat here in the USA, we replaced the inherited Dock Queen polished stainless 33lb claw, 50ft of chain and 100ft of warp with a 45lb Delta, with a single length 150ft of 3/8 HT chain ( HT only to match the windlass gypsy), the old claw and it's rode remain as a spare plus we also carry a Fortress, yet to be truly tested under any stress. There may well be better modern anchors but like I said 'confidence' is the key for me and I have that with a Delta, if I live long enough to need or want to redo our chosen ground tackle again then it might be different but in the meantime I will stick with the Delta and sleep soundly at night. I might add I was tending towards a more modern type like a Rocna until they severely blotted their copybook and fell to the very bottom of my confidence list, others may well tumble too over time, who knows, but meanwhile my choice is made for the tiime being...
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Old 23-05-2014, 06:40   #60
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Re: Photos of Anchors Setting.

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Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
I believe most of the isuues with Delta in the Med is connected to the Lewmar's sizing chart.
I agree the Delta sizing tables recommend inappropriately small anchors.

The Delta in the photo was dropped by a private cruising boat and these usually ignore the Lewmar sizing table for something more sensible. It looked a reasonable size. I have included a photo of the boat concerned so you can get some idea for yourself of the relative size of the anchor next to the boat.
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