Photos of Anchors Setting

[chasfgr]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

Gee no pic's of a Danforth ! I guess it because they mostly bury out of site with only the chain to see ! LOL Any anchor should set well in the bottom your showing in most of your pic's. I still feel safe laying to my Danforth, in sand, mud bottoms, never felt the need to get one of the new age anchors ! Maybe in the future! As long as I don't get a 180 Deg wind shift, my well set Danforth will hook me up !! Just sayin, sometimes the old stuff works well, and if ya don't set em right no anchors gonna hold !!! Just my 2 cents

The main advantage (IMHO) of new age anchors is that they appear to set with much less scope than a old-age anchor.
But then I still use a CQR, though I wouldn't trust it in soft mud or in hard sand.

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

Gee no pic's of a Danforth ! I guess it because they mostly bury out of site with only the chain to see ! LOL Any anchor should set well in the bottom your showing in most of your pic's. I still feel safe laying to my Danforth, in sand, mud bottoms, never felt the need to get one of the new age anchors ! Maybe in the future! As long as I don't get a 180 Deg wind shift, my well set Danforth will hook me up !! Just sayin, sometimes the old stuff works well, and if ya don't set em right no anchors gonna hold !!! Just my 2 cents

It is just because You need to search long and hard to see any Danforth in real use on anchorage in the Med, so it is only very remote chance Noelex and his Mermaid are to spot one.
Fortress anchors, Danforth anchors, Brittany Anchors are all present there, but as a kedge anchors ore spare anchors, never as a bowers.
They are really good for Med mooring, but Your bower in the Med need to hold You dependably not only when Med moored, but also when anchored out, with notorious wind shifts of 90, 180 or even 360 degrees during short time. This ruled out the flat anchors from the bow rollers in the Med generally.

Cheers

Tomasz

[noelex 77]

A couple of interesting anchors today. A Spade and an Ultra.

Both boats both Med-moored, which means dropping your anchor and reversing back to tie your stern to a quay, or sometimes a tree or rock.

Tomasz has written an excellent guide on Med-mooring here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ng-123759.html

These particular two boats were tied to quay today in our anchorage. From an anchor's point of view there are several differences compare to conventional anchoring:
- The most critical is that the substrate is usually quite a bit softer (sometimes it can be too soft for good holding). Boats anchor in a very small area (there was only room for about 4 boats on this quay) and the ground (particularly the first foot or so down) gets ploughed and broken up by the boats anchoring in the same spot, especially with anchors that drag while being set.
- Boats can drop out a very long scope because they are not concerned with swing room.
- The anchor is being pulled in a constant direction irrespective of the wind direction.
- The anchor is pulled uphill rather than down, which effectively increases the scope and holding.
All this tends to promote very good sets from an appearance point of view.

A good set is needed, as any crosswind puts a high load on the anchor, but this will hopefully only drive the anchor in deeper. With a quay just a few feet behind your stern, you do need faith in your anchoring gear.

[noelex 77]

Here are the results.
First the Ultra. This is a fantastic set. In a bit over a metre. The anchor is level and the fluke is deeply embedded with only the top part of the shank visible. This is only the fourth Ultra I have seen and only the second underwater, but this is a great result. The chain at right angles near the end of the shank is an old mooring line.

The anchor was in about 6 m with a scope of about 7:1.

Now where did I put my shackle key?

[noelex 77]

And here is the Spade.
I am not 100% sure if this was a steel or aluminium version. There are significant differences in the performance (at least in hard substrates), so it is an important distinction.
The anchor has set with a slight list (about 10-15 degrees) over a distance of a couple of metres. The underside of the fluke is reasonably exposed on one side and the anchor has done some heaping up of the sand rather than penetrating straight down. Overall a good result, but not quite up to the Spade's usual high performance, especially given the softer substrate. The shorter scope is no doubt a factor.

The anchor was in about 5 m with a scope of about 3:1.

[noelex 77]

A German Boat with a genuine Bugel

The first drop he motored back laying out chain nicely, but used the "momentum method" - in other words he stopped the gypsy while still moving backwards and as the chain came tight, the force from the momentum of the boat was used to try and set the anchor. Most new generation anchors will set this way, but it is a tough test especially in a hard substrate. It exposes the unset anchor to quite a large snatch force. A slow and progressive increase in force is a kinder way to set.

The other problem with the momentum method is that you need some experience to pick if the anchor has set or dragged. Many wrongly assume that the boat slowing down to a stop is evidence of a set anchor, but this will always happen even with a dragging anchor (providing the wind is not strong) as the dragging anchor eventually provides enough resistance to overcome the momentum.

What you are looking for if you use this method is for the chain to very rapidly go tight the bow to dip down and for the chain to stay tight until the momentum is dissipated and the weight of the chain starts to pull the boat forward.

Anyway, it didn't work and the anchor did not hold. To his credit the skipper recognised this and reanchored immediately. Often I can find the drag mark even when the anchor has been lifted, but in this case I could not, so no photos of the first attempt.


This is the second result. Anchor in 6 m @ at scope of 5-6:1
He used a completely different technique, putting the boat slowly into reverse as I would recommend. The anchor did not hold, but he failed to detect this.
This is a very poor result with the anchor not setting at all. The drag mark extended 4-5 m. The drag mark was very shallow showing the anchor never got a grip.
The Bugel is good (not great) anchor. This result is well below average for this anchor, but I can only photograph what is presented.

My mermaid dived on it a few times during the day but it was unchanged. There was only about 10 knots of breeze. He sat on the anchor overnight no doubt thinking it was performing great. It would be nice to see what this anchor would do if exposed to some more wind than we have at the moment.

[Fuss]

Just so I'm clear on this,
we are talking the same location as the picture of the spade above are we.

[noelex 77]

Before you judge the Bugel too harshly, I think the anchorage must have quite a hard substrate apart from near the quay where it has been broken up by all the anchoring.

This is a grapnel anchor, which is part of a mooring in the anchorage. It has a fishing boat on it. I don't know how long the mooring has been down, or what sort of load has been placed on the anchor, but notice how little even the very thin flukes of the grapnel have not penetrated into the bottom. I have also shown the concrete block at the other end, which has dragged slightly.

We also just had a boat with a CQR try to anchor. It did not hold at all. There looked like there was no force on the chain as they reversed back. Indicating almost no grip. Anyway they picked up and left. This is another advantage of a great anchor - you can anchor in spots where old generation anchors will not hold.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Fuss

Just so I'm clear on this,
we are talking the same location as the picture of the spade above are we.

Yes, that is correct, but the Spade and Ultra were Med-moored off a short quay.
Multiple boats anchoring in almost the same spot have significantly soften up the substrate in this area. The rest of the substrate in the anchorage is I think is quite hard gauging from the anchors performances.(although the Mantus has done very well here)

So it is in the same smallish bay, but the substrate is quite different. The Mantus (in post #177) and the above Bugel are both free anchored close together (the two anchors are about 40m apart). That does not guarantee the substrates are similar, but they appeared to be.

I usually poke my fingers or a dive knife in to gauge the substrate when the results are unusual, but I have not done this with the Bugel or the Mantus, as I have been too busy taking photos. I did have a feel with my fingers at the substate around the Spade and it was soft for this area.

[Sailor g]

[QUOTE=noelex 77;1566184]A German Boat with a genuine Bugel.

He used a completely different technique, putting the boat slowly into reverse as I would recommend. The anchor did not hold, but he failed to detect this."

Or the captain may not want to be embarrassed seen trying to anchor again!

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Before you judge the Bugel too harshly, I think the anchorage must have quite a hard substrate apart from near the quay where it has been broken up by all the anchoring.

Well , we should judge it harshly as its clearly not an anchor I would want on my boat, especially when another type digs in not 40m away.

You should tell him to have a go in the same place as your anchor dug in and if he gets the same ****result, he should replace it immediately. It may save his boat in the near future.

The Bugel is a bit short on real estate and has a sharp point. When it is to spec and you drag it on concrete , the tip will attempt to dig into it.
I find it hard to believe that it is possible to improve on the initial dig in ability....maybe a little but not significantly.
My Bugel would never lay like that in that sand and I have never seen it like that. It looks like your really good anchor photos.

Maybe the Bugel does not like the nice and gentle approach. Dump it and put the engine in astern. Then dump out 5:1 at least and take the weight off the windlass.
Pull it back until it seems to stop, increase the revs to 75% over 30 secs. If dragging, stop pulling and then pull slowly again and increase to 75%.
Normally never do the 2nd 75%.
Put the snubber on.
Works every time, and if it didnt, I would put out 7:1 and it would work then.

And if it didn't, I would say that its a **** design and I would get a spade because I like the yellow bit that is on them.

[Fuss]

[QUOTE=Sailor g;1566222]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

A German Boat with a genuine Bugel.

He used a completely different technique, putting the boat slowly into reverse as I would recommend. The anchor did not hold, but he failed to detect this."

Or the captain may not want to be embarrassed seen trying to anchor again!

Hmmm... well if he used my technique, he would have detected it!

Slow and careful is for sailors who don't want to risk pulling the anchor out on a sunny no wind afternoon.

This was a very good example.

[bazzer]

It's is difficult to see why the Bugel, which I believe I'm correct in saying is Swiss, not Germany, did not set correctly unless there is a hard surface below the sand. If the Mermaid has time maybe poking around with a stick will tell us. The Genuine Bugel has a very sharp point on the tip and chamfered edges to assist in penetration. At least my Stainless steel one does.

One point to be remembered is setting a anchor just pulling on the winch is not a good idea. One of my crew did it and the hold down bolts moved. On another boat here in my Marina the delivery captain pulled the winch out of the deck. Always snub off to a Samson post or a very strong deck cleat.

It's worth noting that the Bugel, for what it's worth is the only small anchor to have Lloyd's of Germany Certification.

Mine has only failed to set once and that was because I tried to anchor in a very thick patch of eel like grass.

[Sailor g]

Originally Posted by bazzer

One of my crew did it and the hold down bolts moved. On another boat here in my Marina the delivery captain pulled the winch out of the deck.
Always snub off to a Samson post or a very strong deck cleat.

+1 We had a cleat for that purpose by the windlass.

[noelex 77]

The German boat with the genuine Bugel has now moved over to the quay and Med-moored. I did not see the change, so I don't know how skilfully the drop was carried out, or how much force they put on the anchor etc. There is still a lot that can be deduced from the photo of the end result.

I was interested to see how the Bugel did in the softer sand (churned up by anchors). There is not much room on the quay so the Bugel was in very much the same substrate as the Spade and Ultra in post number #185 and #186.

This is the result:
5-6m @ 5:1
The anchor looks much happier in this softer substrate. It has set rapidly in only a metre or so. The anchor still has a significant list of about 30 degrees. The underside of the fluke is still reasonably exposed, as well as a small amount of the top. Nevertheless, it has achieved a 'just acceptable' set. It is difficult to tell from this sort of appearance what would happen with a bit more force on the anchor so it is difficult to come to firm conclusions. Would it rotate level and bury more?
Some extra wind would be helpful in judging the anchor's performance better.

Meanwhile the Mantus (last photo) is unchanged in this light wind, with its great set. The anchor was under the bow today which made for an interesting photo.