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Old 20-08-2009, 08:37   #1
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Oversized Anchor

Greetings,
We are getting ready to leave to Mexico and beyond in the fall and are in the middle of debating on which items are on our short list to purchase before leaving so the subject of anchors of course came up.
Currently we have two CQR anchors on the bow (65 lb and 75 lb) and 250 ft. of 1/2 inch chain. These anchors fit perfectly on our roller and are standard size for our size boat (54 foot, 57,000 lbs).
Our plan is to anchor out as much as possible and we have been told that it may be a good idea to get a oversized anchor of 100+ pounds. I am curious on what some of your thoughts are on purchasing a oversized anchor. Our windless would handle this size anchor with no problem but unfortunately it would not fit on the rollers perfectly, although I am sure we could make it work.
The thing is this size anchor would cost close to 2K so I do not want to throw this much money away if the difference between a 75 and 100 pound anchor is negligible.
Thoughts?
Jackie
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Old 20-08-2009, 08:44   #2
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Jackie,
it is ALWAYS a good idea to over size your ground tackle. Rhosyn Mor is 38 feet, displaces 20,000 fully loaded ( 15,600 dry). Primary is a 50 lb delta, secondary is a 40 lb plow, tertiary is a 40 danforth and there is an 18lb danforth that is both a dinghy and stern anchor. THis is way over kill, but we do sleep well at night
I have considered going to a 65 lb'er for the primary anchor.......
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Old 20-08-2009, 09:12   #3
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Jackie- yes... get a good oversized anchor. Besides being an important safety item, it will give you good peace of mind. And if your luck is anything like ours.... now that you thought about it and don't get one....

We've set anchor in quiet coves in the Sea of Cortez, only to be awakened at 0300 with the winds HOWLING. We've had to go topsides to remove the bimini and make sure that everything on deck was really secure. We were always comforted in knowing that our oversized anchor was securely set.

We sail on a Tayana 37 with our primary anchor as a Delta 55, a 44 as a secondary and Fortress FX37 as a sand/stern/storm anchor. We started out with a Spade 66 on the bow.... loved it, but lost it on a trip . Our anchors don't fit perfectly on the bow rollers (due to the bowsprit), but that is only a minor inconvenience for us. As long as we can safely lower and raise them, and carry them securely.

Without getting into an anchor debate, I'd sure recommend that you look into one (or two) of the 'new generation' anchors, get one that is oversized for your boat, and enjoy the peace of mind. Also don't forget a snubber of some sort and good chafing gear.

Hopefully we'll see you in the Sea of Cortez this fall/winter/spring. We plan on being in Z-town for sailfest and then heading across to other tropical paridises.

Steve
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Old 20-08-2009, 09:17   #4
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We are 55 ft and 60,000 lbs and our primary is a 128 lb Rocna. A little hard to stow and it needs a bow roller modification but a great 'sleeping pill' The boat came with 65lb CQR which was a waste of time.

Phil
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Old 20-08-2009, 09:28   #5
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I second the motion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer View Post
We are 55 ft and 60,000 lbs and our primary is a 128 lb Rocna. A little hard to stow and it needs a bow roller modification but a great 'sleeping pill' The boat came with 65lb CQR which was a waste of time.

Phil
I think Phil was talking about the Rocna 55 kilo anchor, which actually weighs 121 lbs. You can pick one of those up at WM for $1,600, and it will hold you a ton better than anything you'll be able to get for two grand in a CQR.
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Old 20-08-2009, 09:42   #6
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This is exactly the information I was looking for. It seems that a oversized anchor will be on the top of the list since sleeping is a priority for me. I guess going cheap on ground tackle would be a bad idea so something else will have to move down the list of priorities....maybe that new Honda 3K generator
I will look into the Rocna and Manson Supreme as I hear that the CQR is really not that great compared to some of the newer anchors on the market. I was also curious if it was worth considering the Delta?
Jackie
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Old 20-08-2009, 09:47   #7
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I Love my Delta- but I think if I was buying again I would take a serious look at both the Manson and the Rocna, and maybe the Ancora Latina, having said that the
Delta has never dragged on me...... ( I think I should not have said that)
Good ground tackle is cheap insurance
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Old 20-08-2009, 10:10   #8
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Jackie- when we were researching anchors.... the only thing the vendors could agree upon is that the 'new generation' anchors have better holding power than the older 'traditional' anchors. We ditched our cqr and bruce prior to heading out. They generally held fine, and were used on a previous circumnavigation on our boat (by the previous owner).

After that, no agreements on anything. They (vendors) agreed that the Delta was better than what we previously had (cqr), but that their ('insert brand of anchor here') was much better than anything else on the market.

Our anchor of choice was the spade (part of the rochna/manson/spade debates) with a delta as a back-up. When we 'lost' the spade, we really couldn't afford a new one and needed a new anchor quickly. So a 55 delta it was.

Like Rhosyn Mor, our Delta has yet to drag on us; but I would also surely consider a Rocna (or another Spade) if I needed to replace our primary anchor.

I think you'll find that many of us will recommend the anchor we currently use, so long as it hasn't failed us. If our anchor is top rated in tests, then the tests prove what we have found in real life. If not, the tests are flawed. If my CQR hasn't dragged, then the time proven CQR is the recommendation.

I found that once I sorted through all the opinions, data, tests, etc. that the only constant (generally) was to go oversized (like at least 2-sizes more than 'recommended', and that new generation anchors hold better than the old 'traditional' standbys.

Don't skimp on ground tackle. You'll be dependent on it while cruising. At home, if the weather was predicted to be nasty, I just wouldn't go out. While cruising, we don't always have the option. You'll need something that will hold well.
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Old 20-08-2009, 10:20   #9
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From Hawks web page.

Systems.
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Old 20-08-2009, 10:47   #10
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Hi,

Correct. Probably will need the main anchor from Rocna/Manson/Spade stable (I mean the new, high holding power, easy set and re-set designs) and it will have to be way heavier than 100 lb.

You may also opt for G40 chain unless you already have it, and plenty of it. 250 feet sounds reasonable here.

Your second anchor should be as big as practicable, just in case you might be forced to shed your main. You will probably run it from the same winch, so same chain size, though you might use slightly less chain and splice it to top quality octoplait POLYESTER (preferred to nylon).

Then you may use your present anchors as kedges. They say the aluminum Fortress is also a good anchor/kedge in sand/mud (but if you go to the islands often it will be sand/coral everywhere except the deep bays of Polynesia, which have sand/mud/coral.

In any case, the better / heavier / more the anchors / rode, the safer your ship and the sounder the captains' sleep.

Cheers,
b., a circumnavigator
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Old 20-08-2009, 17:23   #11
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Moondancer is on the right path with that 121 lb anchor on a 60,000 lb boat. It's still a little at the light side for my taste, but the "new-generation thing" should adjust that a bit.

We are 55,000 lb in cruising outfit and have a 176 lb original Bruce. It held in 120 kts wind. We have 300' of 3/8" G70 chain. There's no room (and no need) for a second anchor on the bow. We have Fortress FX-125 and FX-85 anchors for backup and a 2nd chain+rope rode 500' long.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 20-08-2009, 17:34   #12
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Thanks for all the great advise...we went ahead and ordered the 121 lb Rocna today. It was a toss up between the Rocna and Supreme but in the end the Rocna was actually a little cheaper so that was the deciding factor. The Delta was higher priced than either the Rocna or Supreme so we counted that out immediately. Although I did see some Delta knock offs that were pretty reasonably priced. We will probably keep our 75 lb CQR as a secondary anchor.
Now for the real fun....figuring out how to mount this beast on a clipper bow that was meant for CQR anchors only.
Any suggestions?
Jackie
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Old 20-08-2009, 17:41   #13
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Welcome to Club INDMR, otherwise referred to as the I've Never Dragged My Rocna club. Let us know if and why you no longer qualify for membership.
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Old 20-08-2009, 17:43   #14
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Manson Supreme seems to be the go.

Longer chain is good too. We now have 90 meters and LOVE it. You can have a cake of soap as an anchor as long as you have enough scope out. And can I tell you that the last time we anchored in less than 20 meters of water we grounded at low tide. i.e. many cruising anchorages are total @#$% and you really, really need lots of chain.
Remember, a tradewinds anchorage can have you anchoring in 25kts of wind, with waves. It really does test your skills, kit and nerve.

I agree with Nick that a second bow anchor is useless/dangerous.

I don't think I would go with a hugely oversized anchor for one reason........ what happens if your windlass decided to poop its pants? Iin the last few weeks we had a few boats in our mob getting windlass problems... even ours caught a dirty connection a few months ago. The time it took to find the bad connection could have got us into trouble.

Even pulling up the kedge anchor the other day nearly did me in. I had to go to the bar for hours afterwards

Mark
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Old 20-08-2009, 18:42   #15
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Quote:
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I don't think I would go with a hugely oversized anchor for one reason........ what happens if your windlass decided to poop its pants?


Agreed, although I might have stated it more eloquently. Ahem.

I once did a deep dive off a sailboat that let out more chain than the windlass could lift. The only way we could get the hook up was by clipping a shackle to the spinnaker halyard and raising it ten meters at a time and then snubbing it while we re-set the shackle. Wouldn't want to do that on a lee shore.

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Even pulling up the kedge anchor the other day nearly did me in. I had to go to the bar for hours afterwards
POOR BABY!!! Maybe it's time to cut your cruise short!
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