Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-08-2011, 04:16   #46
Registered User
 
redtwin's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Auckland , New Zealand
Boat: Woods/Coplan Boats (SA) Ocean Spirit 34
Posts: 83
Re: New West Marine Recall on Rocna Anchors

Anchor manufacturers have some responsibility towards the safety of boaties and they should be dealt with if manufacturing standards are breached.
These anchors are priced high, even higher after manufacturing shifted to China.

I had a NZ made Rocna on my older Prout and I went through 2 major storms and swore by it. The anchor was delivered and installed by Peter Smith in the early days of Rocna.

Manson is NZ made still I think and most Kiwis use them. I am looking for a replacement for my Danforth and will go for a Manson Supreme.
BTW my old and small Danforth saved my current cat in a major storm last year, after the CQR kept us up most night. So I am not so sure about anything else.
__________________

redtwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2011, 16:46   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Boat: Tartan 37 #6
Posts: 364
Re: New West Marine Recall on Rocna Anchors

Well, I got my postcard from WM. What I would realy like to know is,what are they making the anchors out of TODAY. If I replace mine, will a newly built one be any different ?????
__________________

steamgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2011, 16:56   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ma
Boat: Sabre 28
Posts: 191
Re: New West Marine Recall on Rocna Anchors

Considering Rocna downgraded the specs on their website in June and told distributors "it's none of their business" what they are made of it likely isn't the good stuff.

Shawn
Shawn67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2011, 17:09   #49
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,097
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: New West Marine Recall on Rocna Anchors

love my original bruce and my 0riginal cqr.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2011, 17:35   #50
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: New West Marine Recall on Rocna Anchors

Gotta hand it to West Marine.

Yesterday, at the end of a 10-day cruise, I took in a 12-volt cabin fan that had failed fifteen months after I purchased it. Didn't have a receipt, but I did have my customer number.

Two minutes later I left the store with a new fan.

**********

Having spent the past two weeks hanging off my Rocna, I'm sure glad it was made in Canada.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2011, 19:09   #51
Registered User
 
Ironhorse74's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Vancouver Washington
Boat: Ed Monk designed 34' Sloop Second Wind
Posts: 400
Images: 1
Re: New West Marine Recall on Rocna Anchors

Nice to see West Marine step up to the plate. No company should be allowed a scam like Rocna is trying to pull
Ironhorse74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2011, 20:48   #52
Registered User
 
Gene :^)'s Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Boat: 1914 Fantail M.Y. "Strathbelle"
Posts: 224
Re: New West Marine Recall on Rocna Anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
love my original bruce and my 0riginal cqr.
This post by zeehag may have said it all... The "Original" Bruce was a favorite but don't buy the later versions. The "Original CQR" was a favorite but don't buy the knock-offs.

Now the "Original Rocna" was hot, but don't buy the later low quality version.

It is a pattern that occurs with many "high quality products" once they become popular.
__________________
Gene :^)

1914 Fantail Motor Yacht of Riveted Iron & Steel
http://www.Strathbelle.com
Gene :^) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2011, 08:20   #53
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: New West Marine Recall on Rocna Anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene :^) View Post
This post by zeehag may have said it all... The "Original" Bruce was a favorite but don't buy the later versions. The "Original CQR" was a favorite but don't buy the knock-offs.

Now the "Original Rocna" was hot, but don't buy the later low quality version.

It is a pattern that occurs with many "high quality products" once they become popular.
A big difference here is that the knock-offs of anchors such as the Bruce were being made by other companies. In this case, Rocna was guilty of flooding the market with cheap imitations of its own product.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2011, 09:11   #54
Registered User
 
Gene :^)'s Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Boat: 1914 Fantail M.Y. "Strathbelle"
Posts: 224
Re: New West Marine Recall on Rocna Anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
My understanding is that the Smith's sold the Rocna company several years ago to Holdfast, itself owned by the Bambury's. I believe it was under Holdfast management that all production was moved to China. Does anyone have certain knowledge of the timeline?

I feel bad for Craig and Peter. They made a great product that manufacturing changes has diminished.
Per post #30 it looks like the Rocna may very well be made by "someone else" technically.
__________________
Gene :^)

1914 Fantail Motor Yacht of Riveted Iron & Steel
http://www.Strathbelle.com
Gene :^) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2011, 14:28   #55
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2
Re: New West Marine Recall on Rocna Anchors

I received my post card from West Marine too..."bummer"...

I called them and ordered a Manson Supreme 35, and told them I'll be returning my Chinese made Rocna 33...before I ever got the chance to get it wet! Looks like I'll get a superior made anchor and a few dollars back to boot...the decision was easy for me...Keith
keithmaryq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2011, 18:09   #56
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,921
Images: 4
Re: New West Marine recall on Rocna anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by evm1024 View Post
My understanding is that West Marine writes into its agreement to sell your product that the vendor (Rocna in this case) will take back any unsold inventory (including returns) at the end of the year.

A fresh batch of Rocna Anchors have arrived in North America in July. Let us hope for the best.

I hope you are correct and WM does not take the hit but is able to pass it back.

I bought mine 3-12-2010 but apparently there is no way to know when it was actually made.

My email to Rocna: (didn't anyone else bother?)

From: XXX (Therapy)
Sent: Saturday, 6 August 2011 6:34 a.m.
To: Support
Subject: West Marine recall



Dear Sir/Madame,



Why is West Marine offering refunds when you say the Rocna is way over-built?



How do I know which ones either of you are talking about?



Are there serial numbers?



Thank you,



XXX (Therapy)



Their answer:

Hi XXX (Therapy)
Thank you for your response and the concerns raised.
Unfortunately we do not have serial numbers on our anchors.

Rocna anchors have been manufactured in three different countries (New Zealand, Canada, and China). Following extensive evaluations and testing we moved our production to a Chinese manufacturing facility in 2009. We partnered with a well-respected manufacturer in Shanghai, who produce Rocna anchors in their ISO-9001 accredited facility. We also have our own in-country staff who work closely with the factory and provide independent audits as part of our comprehensive quality assurance program.
In addition we have formed a long-term relationship with Italian based RINA (Registro Italiano Navale), an internationally recognized leader in certification and assessment of conformity, who have also been actively involved in our quality assurance program.
The exact materials used are part of the proprietary intellectual property involved in our production specifications, and grades of steel are carefully chosen to ensure they exceed the RINA Super High Holding Power (SHHP) requirements by a considerable margin, as mentioned above.
While our manufacturing material specifications have evolved over time, primarily to reflect the material locally available in the different countries where our anchors have been produced, our technical website content had remained largely unchanged. This oversight has recently been brought to our attention and we apologize for any confusion this may have caused. We have now updated this website content accordingly.
All Rocna anchors are designed to meet or exceed the requirements of SHHP according to RINA and Lloyds rules, and our relationship with RINA has resulted in Type Approval classification to SHHP (currently Rocna Original sizes 4kg-110kg only – you can see our certificate http://www.rocna.com/assets/Uploads/Rocna-RINA-Cert.pdf. This involved extensive seabed tests, mechanical tests, and drawings approval, and our work with RINA continues.
Current production anchors were recently tested and found to withstand forces well in excess of six times the SHHP proof load requirements. This load also exceeds the breaking strength of the recommended G40 chain by a considerable margin, clearly demonstrating the significant factor of safety in our design.
For a period of time during the first quarter of 2010, the shanks of some galvanised Rocna anchors were manufactured with steel sourced from a different supplier than usual. While this steel had been approved on the understanding that it was of the same specification as that used previously, we recently discovered that this was not the case and that some anchors were produced using shank steel with a reduced specification.
We engaged a number of professional independent organizations to undertake extensive evaluations and testing. This has been a comprehensive and time-consuming process that is now complete. The results are:
Our current production anchors were independently load tested using the RINA Super High Holding Power (SHHP) Type Approval test methodology. SHHP is the highest anchor rating available.
Due to the unavailability of any of the limited number of anchors produced with the alternate material, we engaged a highly reputable marine engineering consulting company to calculate the maximum load capability of these anchors.
The model developed predicted the load capability of the current production anchors within 1% of the demonstrated value, validating the accuracy of the model.
The model then calculated a load capability for the alternate specification anchors of 471% of the RINA SHHP Proof Load requirements.
This load capability exceeds the breaking point of the recommended G40 chain rode by a considerable margin.
These results confirm that all Rocna anchors, including those produced with alternate material, exceed RINA’s proof load requirements by a significant margin, clearly demonstrating the significant factor of safety in our design.

If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards
Martina
Rocna Anchors
t:+64 9 4471961/f: +64 9 480 9576
www.rocna.com/www.rocna.com/kb


So their answer is - sort of - if I can read correctly, we don't have any of the "bad" ones to test (or we have no idea how many there really are) so we created a model.

Did I get that right?

A model? Like the Man Made Global Warming model?....oops. Did I drift the thread.

So, I guess I will visit WM after I visit the boat.

Crapola.

Can't really afford the spade.

Will a Manson fit the Gem like a Rocna? Anybody know?
__________________
Who knows what is next.
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2011, 18:10   #57
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,921
Images: 4
Re: New West Marine Recall on Rocna Anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by marinextreme View Post
He should terll the truth and admit that during the period he claims was the only time they used substandard material "without their knowledge", the chinese order and production sheets that tracked their orders ( referred to each week by the Chinese as the "updated anchor list" ) clearly detailed the grade of metal in each shank as either Q420 or Q620.

The only thing that he is sorry for is being caught out.
Don't know nuthin about that.

How do I find out?
__________________
Who knows what is next.
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2011, 18:13   #58
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,921
Images: 4
Re: New West Marine Recall on Rocna Anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by marinextreme View Post
And still the deception continues:
FACT: The substandard metal referred to in the statements from both WM and Rocna claim a batch from early 2010.

FACT: All of the photos of bent shanks that have been published online predate that period of time.

FACT: The "Venice" photo was from early 2009 and was manufactured Dec 2008.

FACT: West Marine must be applauded for their proactive approach and their own tests and investigations that have resulted in "recall" as such.

It will be interesting to see just what the spin doctors come up with when anyone does contact support for answers manufactured to the highest standard they can pen.

Interesting to compare the 2 test bed photos on the website, one bent and one not?

Really wish I could figger mine out. It is a fantastic anchor. Except in soft mud/grass. But my huge danforth storm anchor did the same thing. Same place, same time, same wind. Sucked for a while that day.
__________________
Who knows what is next.
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2011, 18:32   #59
Senior Cruiser
 
Roy M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southwestern Yacht Club, San Diego, CA
Boat: Searunner 40 trimaran, WILDERNESS
Posts: 3,046
Images: 4
Re: New West Marine Recall on Rocna Anchors

In the hurry to denigrate ROCNA, if one reads the original notice from WEST Marine, very few models, in not many usual sizes, were objects of the recall. Please, folks, read before blathering. It might help to foster more considerate discussions.
Roy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-08-2011, 19:11   #60
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,910
Images: 1
Re: New West Marine Recall on Rocna Anchors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy M View Post
In the hurry to denigrate ROCNA, if one reads the original notice from WEST Marine, very few models, in not many usual sizes, were objects of the recall. Please, folks, read before blathering. It might help to foster more considerate discussions.
The only considerate discussion that is relevant is that Rocna lied - knowingly according to their former production manager.

West Marine are honoring refunds on anyone who is effected; in fact, they mailed out the recall to their customers.

West Marine = ethical

Rocna #fail
__________________

__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
avb3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor, marine, recall, rocna

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rocna Size Captain Randy Anchoring & Mooring 601 22-09-2011 19:48



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.