Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-11-2006, 07:11   #1
Ram
Registered User
 
Ram's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cruising Greece
Boat: Cat in the med & Trawler in Florida
Posts: 2,298
Images: 27
Need a good Weed Anchor, Spade A140 not working

Earlier this year I bought the Spade A140 and at this point wish I would have went with the heaver steel one, the anchor will not set in weeds at all and was very surprised to see it did not set in some sand bottoms. To be fair it did set wonderfully in mud.
I paid about $900 usd for it and hoped it would work as my primary anchor, trying to keep my cat light- now im looking for a new anchor, (steel)
I also bought the xyz and it seems to hold about the same as the spade, in weeds its worthless and some sand not good, it does hold great in mud, at least in the areas I hae sailed .

I have sailed from La Rachelle , France to Tunisia over 5 months and have been on the hook the whole trip except 3-4 days
Im using 130 ft. of 5/16 chain and 350 feet of 3/4 nylon rode with the spade. on the xyz just 5/8s nylon rode

I have a video of the Spade dragging in sand in the clear waters of Ibiza.
I bought.
Whats a good weed anchor?
Ram



__________________

__________________
Ram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2006, 13:11   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wherever HP takes us
Boat: 1974 Challenger 40 Ketch, Holding Pattern
Posts: 107
Bulwagga

Try a Bulwagga anchor. We got one this summer and we love it! It got great reviews on sand and grass. As I understand it was developed up in Canada where the grasses can be 10-15' tall & quite thick. With the tri-blade design there is always a surface in contact with the ground. It DOES NOT stow well in our bow rollers but fits neatly in the sail locker. I can say it was well worth the investment.
__________________

__________________
S/V Holding Pattern
Brian & Heather
Follow our adventure at www.yotblog.com/HoldingPattern
Holding Pattern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2006, 03:47   #3
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,596
Images: 240
I try to avoid anchoring over grass, weed, kelp, shell, and the like.

Although the Bulwagga claims* to be a “Weed Buster”, all anchors, particularly Fluke-Style, experience difficulty penetrating kelp and weed-covered bottoms, as well as rocky and particularly hard sand or clay bottoms. Shells, weed and sea grasses generally hinder anchor penetration, but once through, the anchor may bury into the underlying bottom.

Plow-Style anchors generally perform a little better in these conditions.

I have no personal experience with the “Bull” so cannot comment on their claim:
*
“...The geometry of the Bull allows it to straddle a weedy bottom on its edges rather than "bed down" on weeds, only to snag them for a false "set". When a load is applied, the Bull immediately rotates up onto its points and quickly penetrates the weeds to begin its deep setting action...”


FWIW: The “Bull” is manufactured by NoTECO Division (Mele Companies) of Utica, New York.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2006, 06:05   #4
Marine Service Provider
 
craigsmith's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 404
Images: 4
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram
I have a video of the Spade dragging in sand in the clear waters of Ibiza.
I bought.
Whats a good weed anchor?
Ram
Bulwagga is specifically designed for weed and apparently works well. Feedback is good. However it may not prove a perfect all-rounder - it did poorly in the recent SAIL testing for example.

Unfortunately you won't find any testing dealing specifically with weed, so I suggest you just try one if you feel inclined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay
...penetrating kelp and weed-covered bottoms, as well as rocky and particularly hard sand or clay bottoms. Shells, weed and sea grasses generally hinder anchor penetration, but once through, the anchor may bury into the underlying bottom.

Plow-Style anchors generally perform a little better in these conditions.
No... they do not.
craigsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2006, 06:27   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wherever HP takes us
Boat: 1974 Challenger 40 Ketch, Holding Pattern
Posts: 107
You're right, the BULL is not a good all-round anchor - thats why we use a Delta & Bruce. The questions was for a good weed anchor and that is what the Bulwagga is developed for...the designer said that if it holds well in mud/etc. then it is icing on the cake because he wanted a weed/grass anchor and that's what he got.

I agree and would never use it outside its designed conditions precisely because of the design. We do not try to anchor over grassbeds, etc. but having a 6' draft there are some times where we have to be in a non-preferred position and grassbeds can be our only choice...

We added the BULL to our stable for the peace of mind, the 'just in case' and for us (40', 14ton, 6'draft) it has worked flawlessly all three times we have relied on it.
__________________
S/V Holding Pattern
Brian & Heather
Follow our adventure at www.yotblog.com/HoldingPattern
Holding Pattern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2006, 11:37   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,156
What about a Luke/Fisherman type?

I've never used one in any conditions, but thinking about its design, it seems like it might penetrate in grass better than a plow.
__________________
speedoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2006, 14:05   #7
Eternal Member
 
Alain d'HYLAS's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Piriapolis - URUGUAY
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram
Whats a good weed anchor?
Ram
Sorry… but there is no “perfect’ anchor..(even the Spade!) and like for most of the things, it is also a question of compromise..

Aluminium anchors are light.. and this is perfect for multi hulls boats, but mostly to penetrate weed, you need a sharp point and weight.. I strongly believe that the steel model would have performed better (twice the weight)

Weed is one of the most difficult ground for anchors.. Yes, I believe the Buwagga could have performed better.. but it would not either be a perfect all around anchor.. If your “Bull’ is not perfectly dig in (hard bottoms of light pull) and if the highest of the three blades is not completely dug in, with a change of wind or current, the mooring line can be trapped under it breaking the anchor free.. it could be OK if you are onboard.. but what if you aren’t??

Try to avoid weedy bottoms, or if the water is clear enough, try to locate a sand patch to set your anchor.
__________________
No more anchors to manufacture and to sale..I'm enjoying travels around South America..
Alain d'HYLAS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2006, 19:14   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle area (Bremerton)
Boat: C&C Landfall 39 center cockpit "Anahita"
Posts: 1,076
Images: 6
Weed bottoms

I've been in some very weedy anchorages where no one could set an anchor without first diving down and forcing the tip into the weeds and then gingerly backing down gradually increasing the strain until well set. Then it would hold very well. Bruces were too difficult to force into the bottom and the CQR and sharp Danforths were the easiest, albiet still work to shove in enough to stick when setting. Obvously one would not use the Danforth to swing on but worked well with a bow/stern arrangement. The Luke and fisherman would work at first but would not dig in enough to keep from pulling out when a wind or current reversal occured.

Yes, this was before the Bulwagga. I've often thought of the problem when working in thick lawns with various implements thinking all along of the anchoring problem a lawn would present (which is what you need to think about when encountering heavy weedy bottoms). I can't think of an anchor design which would work in a lawn without first shoving part of it in first, well at least an anchor which would be practical to carry aboard.
__________________
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-11-2006, 19:24   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle area (Bremerton)
Boat: C&C Landfall 39 center cockpit "Anahita"
Posts: 1,076
Images: 6
Northhill anchor

OOps, I almost forgot. I have a folding Northill with nice points that works in weeds.
__________________
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-2006, 17:35   #10
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
I do like Gord usually, and avoid completely weedy areas, trying for places that at least have some sand patches to latch onto. No matter how well my anchor seems to set, I have some trouble trusting it in thick weeds.
__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 15:57   #11
Ram
Registered User
 
Ram's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cruising Greece
Boat: Cat in the med & Trawler in Florida
Posts: 2,298
Images: 27
Thanks to everyone for all your input, I think I will likly get the Bull and keep it just for those heavy weed bottoms. Sometimes you you have no choice but to anchor in thick weeds and I need somthing . Seems nothing is perfect but it may be the best I can hope for.
Ram
__________________
Ram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 20:23   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Fiji
Boat: Westsail - CC - 42
Posts: 339
Only one of two anchors work well in weed: the Fisherman or the Northill. I've used a 70# fisherman on 100' of 3/8" high test chain many times in weed so thick that a 45# CQR won't punch thru. It held and I slept well at night. Even in the worst squalls it never moved more than a couple of feet.
__________________
Fair Winds
-Dave
http://www.svelysium.net/index.html
dkall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 20:37   #13
Marine Service Provider
 
craigsmith's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 404
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkall
Only one of two anchors work well in weed: the Fisherman or the Northill. I've used a 70# fisherman on 100' of 3/8" high test chain many times in weed so thick that a 45# CQR won't punch thru. It held and I slept well at night. Even in the worst squalls it never moved more than a couple of feet.
That proves that the CQR will not work in said weed, which not many will dispute. It does not however prove that "only one of two anchors work well in weed: the Fisherman or the Northill".

Do you have experience with every other type of anchor in the world? Particularly the Bulwagga discussed here?
craigsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2007, 21:00   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Aloha All,
Of all the discussions concerning anchors I've ever read there is one thing that is absolutely certain. You need to have more than one style of anchor. I have four styles aboard for different bottoms. My main storm anchor is a 65lb "real" CQR. I have not used it in weed but I also have a 60lb fisherman for that purpose. Backup anchors are 40lb Northhill and a 27lb Fortress. I admit to having too many anchors but I'm not going to have very much insurance. Its a tradeoff.
JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 01:19   #15
Marine Service Provider
 
craigsmith's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 404
Images: 4
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn
Aloha All,
Of all the discussions concerning anchors I've ever read there is one thing that is absolutely certain. You need to have more than one style of anchor. I have four styles aboard for different bottoms. My main storm anchor is a 65lb "real" CQR. I have not used it in weed but I also have a 60lb fisherman for that purpose. Backup anchors are 40lb Northhill and a 27lb Fortress. I admit to having too many anchors but I'm not going to have very much insurance. Its a tradeoff.
Like Dave you are drawing a conclusion from limited experience. How can you be sure it is necessary to have more than one style of anchor if you haven't in fact tried every anchor there is? Certainly we would argue your problem is the fact that you have samples of fairly poor anchor designs - each present only to address the flaws of the others.
__________________

craigsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Heavy weather anchoring, Stede General Sailing Forum 105 10-12-2008 11:11



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:21.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.