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Old 16-04-2017, 08:01   #76
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Cool anchor, but holy moley, a 70 pound anchor on a Gemini! And all chain rode! I'd be surprised if the boat has enough power to even set the anchor. What about all that weight on the bow? Gemini's sail well if kept light. I wouldn't want all that weight forward! We had a Gemini and we used an FX-16 and 100' of 1/4" G4 with 300' 1/2" nylon, which held us fine in 40+ knots.
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Old 16-04-2017, 09:04   #77
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
I think you will find that if the anchor buries well (as it should do) the slot makes it harder, not easier to break out the anchor when pulling from directly above.

Without the slot the upward force used when breaking out the anchor is fixed at the end of the shank. In this position the length of the shank will exert leverage, forcing the toe of the fluke upwards. If the chain is permitted to slide forward along the slot this leverage is lost and the anchor is more difficult to break out.

The real danger with the slot, in my opinion, is that it makes the anchor more prone to breaking out with a change in direction of pull. This is why companies like Manson recommend the slot is not used for overnight anchoring. I think this is good advice. It should be easy to arrange a second fixed attachment point on your anchor like the Manson Supreme.
Mansions recommendations are likely due to the said manufacturers liability coverage recommended by the forced "companionship " of manu and ins.
Some of us don't drink that koolaide and float differently.
Mrbs anchor works because it's different than others. Repeat the thought.
Different design in dimensions, structure, material size and compilation.
Thus it works differently than some may think.
All manner of mass production anchors have failed. No?
Please provide contradicting evidence.
Mrbs anchor has yet to be proven NOT to work, but proven by him to work.
And it's not welded by a robot with the technicians sitting in the control room reading a boaters rag. Lol.
We have all kinds of anchors being mass produced. That doesn't make them better than home made pure and simple. Little danforths copied in garages worldwide work just fine. I got one in my dink 10 or 13 lbs. and one made from shipyard and dairy bits cast aside, they serve the purpose on a little fishing boat.
What's different?
I'll tell you what different, it's the notion in your head bred by fear mongering insurance companies.
Can I use rocks for ballast. Or is insurance gonna forbid it?
Engine blocks and rail car wheels as moorings still exist , oh but they are mass produced, dang it.
Kudos, MrB, I like it, you did good and I'm sure I don't need to tell you not to listen to naysayers lol.
I might add, experience is more valuable than a certificate. Book knowledge is not much good if you cannot apply it. Certificates have two purposes, I can wipe my arse with mine too.
I don't mind drinking with the mates without the certs.
Oh well it's all in the perspective now ain't it?
What kind of anchors did slocum use?
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Old 16-04-2017, 09:57   #78
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
.......The Claw, Made in China, Is as usefull as throwing the chain out with nothing on it,
I not once got it too set, After many tries, ......................
Anchoring is a combination of technique and equipment. It seems you need to work on your technique.

I've anchored with a claw anchor hundreds of times and have never had it fail to set and never had it drag.

I'm not going to attempt to tell you how to anchor a boat but Chapman Piloting (the book) explains it pretty well.
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Old 16-04-2017, 10:48   #79
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by thruska View Post
Mrbs anchor works because it's different than others. Repeat the thought.
Different design in dimensions, structure, material size and compilation.
Thus it works differently than some may think.
All manner of mass production anchors have failed. No?
WTF are you smoking? He hadn't even gotten it wet yet.

It's not different than others, it's a combination of ideas and design principles taken from various other anchors. Each of those design aspects has a pretty self-evident purpose and contribution to the anchor's function. Getting it wet and using it for awhile will be the only real test of whether he has created a winner. And if it does work it will not be because it's different, it will be because it's largely the same.

He has left out some aspects of those corresponding anchors, aspects that I consider to be valuable to the anchor's effectiveness, but that's his choice and we'll see how it works out. I think the straight vs. concave outside edges of the flukes may be an issue in some substrates. It's not self launching, which is unfortunate given it's weight. There is a lot of weight up top, which may be a problem in some conditions. A few other things give me pause as well, but it all comes down to how it performs in the real world.

All this knee-jerk calling out of "naysayers" is getting tedious. No one has told him he doesn't have the chops to design and fabricate an anchor. People have offered up valid constructive criticism and advice, and they get leapt on as being overly negative or unsupportive. It's nonsense. And what's unfortunate is that much of the advice has come from some extremely experienced cruisers with thousands upon thousands of nights at anchor with different gear in a wide range of conditions.

And his response has been "look at my credentials" and "it's designed right, won't need any modification." He gets butt-hurt at the smallest perceive slight. Do I laud him for taking the initiative for and designing and building his own anchor? Of course. But for God's sake f you don't want feedback on something you've designed and created yourself, don't go creating a thread about it in a public forum.

Every engineer I've ever worked with believes that testing in the field is a critical step in the evaluation of design solution. To believe otherwise is an unwise conceit.
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Old 16-04-2017, 12:37   #80
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Well well well practical experience makes one an engineer? Both valuable but they aren't the same. I have both and imho they complement but not replace.
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Old 16-04-2017, 13:30   #81
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA-None View Post
Well well well practical experience makes one an engineer? Both valuable but they aren't the same. I have both and imho they complement but not replace.
My experience has been, draw it on a napkin and take it to the model maker/ machinist.
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Old 16-04-2017, 14:14   #82
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
Sarca, Manson and Rocna all tested theirs and others behind vehicles,
One had a winch drum setup, Another had a truck,
All on the beach, Not underwater,


So my towing my anchor behind an AWD Jeep is not a valid test, I can see the logic in that statement, Duhhh,

If it wont dig in on land, There is no point testing it in water, It still wont work,
But I do like your theory, Hahahahaha

I didnt disregard the words or advice on the TWO CHAPS on here that spent many hours testing theirs,
There were many others that I listened too, Before I even started on mine,
, So dont try to put words in my mouth,
Thats what you said, Not me,

You have no Engineering skills, Capabilitys. Knowledge or Equiptment to make any thing with in Steel,
So your suddenly a Professional Expert in Steel, Its Propertys and Manufacturing of same,
If you wanted a new anchor, You have to trust the people on here or other Forums to decide what you need or want,

Do you know the difference and Strengths of the different materials anchors are made from,
Stainless Steel, Mild steel, Bisalloy, Hi Carbon, Low Carbon, Titanium, Cast Iron, Forged or Welded, Aluminium, Galvanised, That shiny stuff they cover anchors in,
What metal is actually under that Galvanising, Other than Metal, Hahahaha

Best of luck with that, Your going to need it,
You probably have a Claw anchor and swear by it,

So if you want to pick **** out of me or my Extensive Engineering background, Which was all Practical, That stuff they call. Hands On,

I am not a Paper or Theoretical Engineer, Or Intuitive, (Guessing) As you so suggest or infer,

Please use a bit of intelligent knowledge and Facts before doing so, Thanks,

Have a nice Day,
Cheers Brian,
How does on become an engineer when failing grammar, composition and spelling? Just curious.
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Old 16-04-2017, 14:44   #83
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

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Originally Posted by Bleemus View Post
How does on become an engineer when failing grammar, composition and spelling? Just curious.
I'm guessing two unrelated things. A good secretary can cure that.
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Old 16-04-2017, 15:00   #84
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
.......where even the Princess of Tasmania stops running on bad days, Ive seen video's of it coming thru the Rip like a cork, God help the people on board in that situation......

......I am going to the Kimberlys in my boat, That has a 30 foot tide, and a 12 feet wall of water on the tide changes going in and coming out,
And its full of very large Crocodiles......
Keep up Mr B, the Princess of Tasmania last went through the Rip in 1972...

Yep there are places in the Kimberley that have 30ft tides (and bigger) but the only place that gets the "12ft wall of water" is the Horizontal Waterfalls in Talbot Bay which can reach 16ft on king tides. You won't be going through there in your underpowered Gemini, even in the most benign of conditions, slack tide on the neaps, it doesn't stop flowing for long, and the eddies are always there. I used to take punters through there on a narrow gutted 36ft ally power cat back in the early 80's, but that was with 200hp on either side and only at slack high tide, and we still used to get knocked around....but I'm sure the thought never crossed your mind

Good luck with the anchor, make sure you get some real world testing done before you bet your boat on it, especially if venturing in to the Kimberley region...

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Old 16-04-2017, 15:16   #85
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jannie Radiance View Post
Awesome anchor. I will do one as well. I am not an engineer, I will have it laser cut. Then welded at an engineering shop. As I understand it, that slot on top should be longer and more forward up to the ring?
Wait a few days till I get it back and test it in the long grass,
If it dont set or reset in the long grass, I may have to modify it,
Only a practical test will prove its worth,
Your quite welcome to copy it,
Its not yet at the Guarantee stage which my work carrys automatically,
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Old 16-04-2017, 15:42   #86
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

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Originally Posted by IslandHopper View Post
Keep up Mr B, the Princess of Tasmania last went through the Rip in 1972...

Yep there are places in the Kimberley that have 30ft tides (and bigger) but the only place that gets the "12ft wall of water" is the Horizontal Waterfalls in Talbot Bay which can reach 16ft on king tides. You won't be going through there in your underpowered Gemini, even in the most benign of conditions, slack tide on the neaps, it doesn't stop flowing for long, and the eddies are always there. I used to take punters through there on a narrow gutted 36ft ally power cat back in the early 80's, but that was with 200hp on either side and only at slack high tide, and we still used to get knocked around....but I'm sure the thought never crossed your mind

Good luck with the anchor, make sure you get some real world testing done before you bet your boat on it, especially if venturing in to the Kimberley region...

Whats the Princess called now, There are two of them, I just checked,
Now called the Spirit of Tasmania,
My appologys for the wrong name, Ive always called it the Princess,

Wow, Is it that long since the Princess sank in the Yarra, I seen it submerged in the Yarra, Dead sheep were floating every where,
They opened the back door early and it filled with water and sank,



Ive seen Cats Moored in Talbot bay, sitting on the sand,
It depends on the ebb tide, How long it lasts before I would attempt to go thru it, I do 7 knots, So half an hour of flat water would get me thru it,
But thats wait and see in actual time, If its dodgy, I wont attempt it,

Im not a tourist, So I dont need to be impressed with a speed boat going thru with the tide flowing fast,
Ive seen plenty of video.s where its the done thing to impress the tourists with a speed thrill,
I might even Pay to go on one of those speed thrill tours, It does look impressive, A real Buzz,

Thanks for the heads up on the conditions going thru there in real time,
Im hanging out to test my anchor in the long grass,
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Old 16-04-2017, 16:02   #87
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Training Wheels View Post
Cool anchor, but holy moley, a 70 pound anchor on a Gemini! And all chain rode! I'd be surprised if the boat has enough power to even set the anchor. What about all that weight on the bow? Gemini's sail well if kept light. I wouldn't want all that weight forward! We had a Gemini and we used an FX-16 and 100' of 1/4" G4 with 300' 1/2" nylon, which held us fine in 40+ knots.
Hahahaha, I love it, I came across from Fiji two inches above the plimsol line,
It was loaded to the hilt, I had three of every thing on board, Thats how I bought it, and canned food for a month, Minimum, 150 feet of 1/4 chain plus the two anchors,
Including enough diesel to get me 750 Miles,
It was good with the extra gear on board, It saved me a few times having parts to repair things that went wrong on the way over, And all the mauals to fix things,
That was plan B, If I couldnt sail it, I was going to motor it back to OZ, Island hopping,
At that Time, I couldnt sail for Sh#t, But I have been boating for a long time,
It still sailed ok, Probably stopped it bouncing around, I have removed most of the excess gear on it, Hahahaha
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Old 16-04-2017, 16:30   #88
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post


Ive seen Cats Moored in Talbot bay, sitting on the sand,
It depends on the ebb tide, How long it lasts before I would attempt to go thru it, I do 7 knots, So half an hour of flat water would get me thru it,
But thats wait and see in actual time, If its dodgy, I wont attempt it....
You don't go through the Horizontal Waterfalls to get in to Talbot Bay, the falls run off Talbot Bay, the boats you have seen are anchored or beached in Talbot Bay, not inside the falls, never heard of or seen a sailboat go through them in all my years of working and sailing in the Kimberley's....

Most yachties anchor up in Talbot Bay and use these guys to go through the falls, some also use there own dinks when conditions allow.....

About Us : Horizontal Falls
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Old 16-04-2017, 21:00   #89
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
WTF are you smoking? He hadn't even gotten it wet yet.

It's not different than others, it's a combination of ideas and design principles taken from various other anchors. Each of those design aspects has a pretty self-evident purpose and contribution to the anchor's function. Getting it wet and using it for awhile will be the only real test of whether he has created a winner. And if it does work it will not be because it's different, it will be because it's largely the same.

He has left out some aspects of those corresponding anchors, aspects that I consider to be valuable to the anchor's effectiveness, but that's his choice and we'll see how it works out. I think the straight vs. concave outside edges of the flukes may be an issue in some substrates. It's not self launching, which is unfortunate given it's weight. There is a lot of weight up top, which may be a problem in some conditions. A few other things give me pause as well, but it all comes down to how it performs in the real world.

All this knee-jerk calling out of "naysayers" is getting tedious. No one has told him he doesn't have the chops to design and fabricate an anchor. People have offered up valid constructive criticism and advice, and they get leapt on as being overly negative or unsupportive. It's nonsense. And what's unfortunate is that much of the advice has come from some extremely experienced cruisers with thousands upon thousands of nights at anchor with different gear in a wide range of conditions.

And his response has been "look at my credentials" and "it's designed right, won't need any modification." He gets butt-hurt at the smallest perceive slight. Do I laud him for taking the initiative for and designing and building his own anchor? Of course. But for God's sake f you don't want feedback on something you've designed and created yourself, don't go creating a thread about it in a public forum.

Every engineer I've ever worked with believes that testing in the field is a critical step in the evaluation of design solution. To believe otherwise is an unwise conceit.
Not smokin but it might help lol.
I've tried to imply that a certification or degree without applied practice is liken to wiping your arse with said paper. That's my take on it and I'm sticking to it.
All the other pontification you blathered was covered by mr B quite thoroughly.
Thank for the heads up matey.
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Old 16-04-2017, 21:46   #90
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Mikhail Kalashnikov had no degree or certificate. He has a significant impact on recent world history. I won't buy the anchor now, but if it works, I do not know about the future. Only a trained engineer would even consider wiping with sandpaper, let alone test the idea. Most of us know better without having a certificate or degree. Hope the anchor works well. I do not use crossed wooden tree branches weighted with stones and tied to woven vines, mostly because things better came along, and probably were developed in almost every instance, if not every instance, by a sailor without a degree or certificate, but who had an idea and tried it.
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