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Old 14-04-2017, 04:33   #16
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Design looks good. I would use er
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Old 14-04-2017, 05:19   #17
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

I can tell you right now that in a lot of circumstances where I anchor, that would not work given the sliding shackle.

Just one scenario; you drop the anchor, set it, and then subsequently the current goes to slack and then reverses. Your boat drifts back over the anchor, pulling the shackle to rear of the anchor, and then unsets it. Won't reset because now the anchor is being dragged backwards with no way of turning itself around.

You can't have a sliding attachment point if you want the anchor to reset reliably in changing conditions.

I also think the weight distribution is going to be a problem. I can see that sliding along and never biting down in some circumstances.

"Engineering Blacksmith by Trade, 5 years,
Fully Qualified Practising Mechanical Engineer, 5 years,
Boilermaker/Certified DLI Welder, 40 Years,
And fifty years experience,
Do you think I have enough Qualifications, "


So basically you can weld. None of your qualifications point to being able to design anything, just put parts together. Personally I would not worry about my insurance company and whether I would be covered as I think that is putting the cart before the horse. I would start by worrying about whether the anchor will actually work well, and given what you've pictured, I think it has some significant flaws.
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Old 14-04-2017, 05:22   #18
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonc View Post
Tell me more about the welding technology. Weld strength is obviously the critical issue, and you have great experience.
.9, S6 Mig welding wire, Just in case I have dissimilar materials in it,
Its fully welded from both sides, 100 % Xray welds, Because thats what I do,
The hoop bar at the back is solid bar,

I didnt like the idea of pipe, Lack of Galv in there is a fault which can break down in time,

The size of the material itself is the strength in it,
The blade jammed and buried in the dirt, The main arm standing vertically out of the ground and a screaming wind blowing the boat,
The long arm wont bend sideways no matter what happens to it, ,
Thats its weakest point, Sideways strain, with the arm up Vertically,

But thats highly unlilkely to occur any way, as the D shackle will just drop to the bottom of the slot and it will be pulling directly on the base,
Even if the chain is wrapped around the vertical arm with many changing tides, its still pulling on the base,
Most bad weather is gone after 3 or 4 days,
Then its going to be a real bastard to pull it up, If its stuck in a vertical position and buried in the bottom,
The D shackle does not get stuck in the slot, Its very freely moving,
All sharp edges have been removed, Sticky spots,
Galv gets a build up on sharp edges, And can be chipped off easily, So the rounded edges prevent this happening,
The chain cant get tangled with the anchor in any way,

16 mm thick, 130 mm wide, with a 20 mm slot in it, My boat will never get that kind of strain on it,
My biggest problem with the whole thing was the slot,
How much strain can I put on the D shackle sideways to twist the small section of the front bar, The part the shackle slides along,
16 mm X 25 mm, 5/8ths by an inch,

The small section on the front of the blade was to stop the point bending,
Its all a bit of overkill, But Im old school, Make it once and forget about it,

Feel free to ask any questions, Im not God and I do make mistakes,
Its better to sort any problems out now, Instead of in a cyclone,
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Old 14-04-2017, 05:33   #19
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
I can tell you right now that in a lot of circumstances where I anchor, that would not work given the sliding shackle.

Just one scenario; you drop the anchor, set it, and then subsequently the current goes to slack and then reverses. Your boat drifts back over the anchor, pulling the shackle to rear of the anchor, and then unsets it. Won't reset because now the anchor is being dragged backwards with no way of turning itself around.

You can't have a sliding attachment point if you want the anchor to reset reliably in changing conditions.

I also think the weight distribution is going to be a problem. I can see that sliding along and never biting down in some circumstances.

"Engineering Blacksmith by Trade, 5 years,
Fully Qualified Practising Mechanical Engineer, 5 years,
Boilermaker/Certified DLI Welder, 40 Years,
And fifty years experience,
Do you think I have enough Qualifications, "


So basically you can weld. None of your qualifications point to being able to design anything, just put parts together. Personally I would not worry about my insurance company and whether I would be covered. I start by worrying about whether the anchor will actually work well.

What I design, I actually make, Thats what a practising Engineering Blacksmith does,
I actually design and make all the parts before I put it together,
So basically I can weld, Hahahaha
I am a highly qualified skilled Tradesman With Welding Certificates,
I am also on LLoyds ships register As a Competant Welder, I can get a job any where in the world as a Welder,
I have been repairing and building ships most of my life,

It cant be dragged backwards as the hoop and the rear will just roll over every time, And be in reset mode,
Have another look at the piccys,
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Old 14-04-2017, 05:45   #20
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
The hoop bar at the back is solid bar,
I don't think this is the best solution. The roll bar needs to be as light as possible, so a hollow bar is optimum . It is also helpful if the bar has as large a radius as possible, especially with a design like yours without skids at the back of the fluke.


Think of anchor design a little like monohull sailboat design. Some parts such as the bottom of the keel need to be as heavy and dense as possible, but this does not mean you can make the whole boat heavy. Other areas such as the mast, deck, and ends of the boat needs to be as light as possible for best performance. Anchors are similar and the roll bar is an area where as light as possible improves performance.
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Old 14-04-2017, 05:47   #21
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
It cant be dragged backwards as the hoop and the rear will just roll over every time, And be in reset mode,
Have another look at the piccys,
I gave it another look. I'm fairly certain you're going to have problems with it.

Good luck with it.
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Old 14-04-2017, 05:59   #22
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

I'm in the good on you crowd, I also believe that if it does show some defects that you will either modify or build another until your happy.
I predict you will eliminate the slot, and make the shank one piece.
I'm an old Oil Field welder myself, back decades ago.
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Old 14-04-2017, 06:12   #23
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Looks pretty much like many of the “new gen” anchors, so to me it looks good in principle. Congrats Mr. B. I only wish I had your skills.

My questions: How did you choose fluke area and fluke angle? The area and angle seems a bit smaller than other similar anchors, but maybe I’m not seeing the pic right. My understanding is that surface area of the flukes is vital for good holding (bigger the better), and angle is critical to proper setting. Just curious how you made those choices.

As for the whole insurance thing; I can’t recall anyone reporting that they were challenged in a claim due to their choice of anchor. Nor do I know of any policy that stipulates the type or even size of anchor required. If it happens it must be quite rare.
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Old 14-04-2017, 06:30   #24
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I'm in the good on you crowd, I also believe that if it does show some defects that you will either modify or build another until your happy.
I predict you will eliminate the slot, and make the shank one piece.
I'm an old Oil Field welder myself, back decades ago.
The slot is to use the boat to pull it out, I dont have a winch, Its all muscle to lift it out, Which I also have,
Possibly, 40 Kilograms with a lot of chain out, Very deep water,

Thats why its made like it is, Experience comes into it also,
I only make some thing once, The faults are not there to start with,
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Old 14-04-2017, 06:37   #25
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

It looks pretty stout and well engineered. It's pretty impossible to test in all situations unless you want to lose a bunch of them around the world.

I couldn't help but laugh at the comment about being a glorified welder. I used to be a pipe fitter. It was in the nuclear field building nuclear power plants. There are better engineers out there melting wire than you will ever find working in an office somewhere. Many of them engineers by degree choosing to put their hands where the money is and do it themselves. Isn't that why many people choose to get that degree in the first place? I've worked with a great number of guys without the paper too and have seen them put some green graduates in their place with hands on knowledge.

It's great that you've taken your idea to it's final stage. Sad that you are retired and not planning to at least sell your design to a firm that might make a better anchor for the right conditions. We all know that no anchor is good for every condition, yours will probably work flawlessly in your conditions. When you get it going throw one of those cheap go-pro knock offs on it and get some video of it in real world conditions (I'd love to see it in action).

I've heard ZERO denials of claims by insurance companies due to anchors, nor have I ever seen them require a certain anchor.

Thanks for sharing
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Old 14-04-2017, 06:38   #26
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Looks pretty much like many of the “new gen” anchors, so to me it looks good in principle. Congrats Mr. B. I only wish I had your skills.

My questions: How did you choose fluke area and fluke angle? The area and angle seems a bit smaller than other similar anchors, but maybe I’m not seeing the pic right. My understanding is that surface area of the flukes is vital for good holding (bigger the better), and angle is critical to proper setting. Just curious how you made those choices.

As for the whole insurance thing; I can’t recall anyone reporting that they were challenged in a claim due to their choice of anchor. Nor do I know of any policy that stipulates the type or even size of anchor required. If it happens it must be quite rare.
The anchors I took the size of the flukes off, Mine is the same width,
They do give all the dimensions,
Their angles I took as a guide, They dont work with my anchor,
It would slide with out setting,
This is designed to dig in, Which it does, and reset itself no matter which way I am going, Which it does,
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Old 14-04-2017, 06:51   #27
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

I think you will find that if the anchor buries well (as it should do) the slot makes it harder, not easier to break out the anchor when pulling from directly above.

Without the slot the upward force used when breaking out the anchor is fixed at the end of the shank. In this position the length of the shank will exert leverage, forcing the toe of the fluke upwards. If the chain is permitted to slide forward along the slot this leverage is lost and the anchor is more difficult to break out.

The real danger with the slot, in my opinion, is that it makes the anchor more prone to breaking out with a change in direction of pull. This is why companies like Manson recommend the slot is not used for overnight anchoring. I think this is good advice. It should be easy to arrange a second fixed attachment point on your anchor like the Manson Supreme.
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Old 14-04-2017, 07:50   #28
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
The slot is to use the boat to pull it out, I dont have a winch, Its all muscle to lift it out, Which I also have,
Possibly, 40 Kilograms with a lot of chain out, Very deep water,

Thats why its made like it is, Experience comes into it also,
I only make some thing once, The faults are not there to start with,
The slot is a bad idea. Testing your anchor behind your truck in the yard isn't the same as an ocean bottom.
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Old 14-04-2017, 07:56   #29
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeking Solace View Post
It looks pretty stout and well engineered. It's pretty impossible to test in all situations unless you want to lose a bunch of them around the world.

I couldn't help but laugh at the comment about being a glorified welder. I used to be a pipe fitter. It was in the nuclear field building nuclear power plants. There are better engineers out there melting wire than you will ever find working in an office somewhere. Many of them engineers by degree choosing to put their hands where the money is and do it themselves. Isn't that why many people choose to get that degree in the first place? I've worked with a great number of guys without the paper too and have seen them put some green graduates in their place with hands on knowledge.

It's great that you've taken your idea to it's final stage. Sad that you are retired and not planning to at least sell your design to a firm that might make a better anchor for the right conditions. We all know that no anchor is good for every condition, yours will probably work flawlessly in your conditions. When you get it going throw one of those cheap go-pro knock offs on it and get some video of it in real world conditions (I'd love to see it in action).

I've heard ZERO denials of claims by insurance companies due to anchors, nor have I ever seen them require a certain anchor.

Thanks for sharing
Definately agree with you,
I thought that comment was funny too,
My year was the last year of our Curriculum,
The next year they took the Engineering Degree out of it, and shortened the apprenticeship to four years,
I spent five years pushing a pen for my degree as well as doing the Practical side of my trade,
Engineering Blacksmith was the Master Craft of all the Black trades,
I did every thing and then made it,
I started off forging under steam and drop hammers, including two Ton Train Axles,
I have welded in all mediums, Including welding chain and lifting hooks out of a Forge,
Thats how chain was made back then, Forged by hand,
I took up Boilermaker/ DLI Welder when steam finished,
It was just a small part of my trade, I hated welding, Still do,
Spent two years welding up the West Gate Bridge here, All stick,
18 months doing the overheads, All 100 % Xray, It looked like a machine had laid it, No ripples and no joins visible, I laid it with a stick and could not pick my joins,
I called myself a rough welder, But I wasnt up myself enough to polish my welds so I could see myself in them, The Prima Donna's did that, hahahaha

My welds hold the cable supports for it, Hahahaha,

Made plenty of Pressure vessels, Stainless as well, Done miles of steam pipe,
On site welding for the big mines, Earth moving machinery and equiptment.
It took me two weeks to weld the Jaws on a bucket, Low Hi sticks, 4 inch thick, in 45 degree heat,
I used to love putting theoretical Engineers back in their box, Hahahaha
I could tell them what was needed out of my head, and what they had done wrong,
They had to go back to their office and get on their computers, 3 weeks later, They still didnt know, But i had done the job by then,

Best one ever, I would have been charged with multiple deaths, As I welded it, So it would have been my fault, I would have been stitched up with it,

A Stillage on the fourth floor, Base of a tower Crane, Four beams crosswise welded to the columns four feet off the floor,
Two beams each way, Problem being the penetration in the floors above were not in the middle of the beams, where they should have been,
Most of the weight of the crane was on one column, hahahahaha, That aint going to work, Its going to shear off with the first load they hang on it,
So I welded away for a week making sure the welds were perfect and dead on size, Mongrels are not going to stitch me up with this one if it shears off, and then the Engineer came for a look see,
I also welded the angles on to take the Base of the crane frames, ,

I said to him, I hope you have done your home work on this one,
He said what do you mean seeing that I was very serious about it,
I gave him all the weights for the tower, Two ton by twenty, The tower frames,Thats forty Tons,
25 Ton crane sitting on it, Actual weight, 160 foot boom, It was an eighteen Ton crane deregulated to 12 Ton for this job,
Plus the weight of the 160 foot boom,
Whats 12 ton at 160 feet weigh, That leverage is phenomenal, They do a free fall with that load,
It will shear this beam off the column, as it is not thick enough, The beam,
It takes 250 ton pressure to shear a 4 inch square block of steel in a guillotine,
This beam is less than 4 inch square,
He was not happy when I said it would take out the building across the road,
The street I was in was wall to wall people all day long,
A crane dropping from above the 12th floor, Its going to be messy down there,
A week later all these thickener plates arrived, Top, Bottom, sides, under the flanges,
All twenty mm thick, the beam was 20 mm thick as well,
I zapped them all in, finished the stillage and left,

Two weeks later, I dropped in to have a look, see how it had stood up,
It had a 3/8ths of an inch deflection where it came off the column,
it would definately have collapsed if the extra plates had not been added,

Sorry for getting carried away, But you will appreciate it,

Cheers Brian,
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Old 14-04-2017, 08:08   #30
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Re: My brand new Anchor, Home made,

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
I think you will find that if the anchor buries well (as it should do) the slot makes it harder, not easier to break out the anchor when pulling from directly above.

Without the slot the upward force used when breaking out the anchor is fixed at the end of the shank. In this position the length of the shank will exert leverage, forcing the toe of the fluke upwards. If the chain is permitted to slide forward along the slot this leverage is lost and the anchor is more difficult to break out.

The real danger with the slot, in my opinion, is that it makes the anchor more prone to breaking out with a change in direction of pull. This is why companies like Manson recommend the slot is not used for overnight anchoring. I think this is good advice. It should be easy to arrange a second fixed attachment point on your anchor like the Manson Supreme.
This slot is designed to pull out and reset on every tide change, If it stays buried there, thats even better,
It is not being pulled up vertically, That is only to get the shackle to move to the back of the slot, Then the chain is let go and pulled out of the mud or whatever its in, by pulling it backwards,

Its not a Manson Etc, So I dont care what they think,
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