Most Chafe-Resistant Rope ?

[Kettlewell]

I would wonder if climbing rope might not have the UV and general weather resistance of marine rope. I have discovered over the years that rope varies greatly in how well it ages. I have had nylon rodes from many different sources and some harden up rapidly after a year or two, while other line seems to last forever and ever. I've found NE Ropes 3-strand is in the extremely long-lasting category.

[Artif]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

Interesting you should say this. I have a line (no pun intended) on the rope window washers use here in my city. By law, it has to be retired every two years, so the company in question has hundreds of metres of used, but frequently reasonable condition line.

I was thinking that for bridles and other similar jobs, this could be good stuff. It's called "climbing line" by the head of the company. I call it "free to me for asking".

I would have to look at it closely to judge if it's truly more chafe resistant than the usual "marine" stuff.

As a side comment, old fire hose makes great antichafe through fairleads.

I think you'll find they use semi static line rather than lead climbing rope, semi static is used for rope access and caving etc it's lack of dynamic stretch makes it much easier to jumar etc on. The exact opposite properties your after.

[Artif]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I would wonder if climbing rope might not have the UV and general weather resistance of marine rope. I have discovered over the years that rope varies greatly in how well it ages. I have had nylon rodes from many different sources and some harden up rapidly after a year or two, while other line seems to last forever and ever. I've found NE Ropes 3-strand is in the extremely long-lasting category.

I used some of my retired climbing ropes on my boat, they were 10 years old before they met my boat, they then did another 7 years on my boat with no obvious ill effects other than the colour fade, but this happened in the first couple of years of climbing.
I must add, I would definitely not use them for climbing on again.

[Jim Cate]

FWIW:

A comment on the use of dacron vs nylon in anchor rodes -- the difference in stretch characteristics should become less important in an all-rope (or nearly so) rode, since the length is so much greater than in a snubber. By the time one has, say, 100 feet of dacron double braid deployed as rode there is a substantial amount of stretch available for shock reduction purposes. In the case of a much shorter snubber the nylon seems better.

In our case we use a 10 metre length of 16mm double braid nylon for our snubber, and it has worked very well. If I was setting up for a serious storm I would use two snubbers: one very long and stretchy one, and our regular not-as-stretchy one as a backup. The latter would be positioned so that it only came into effect after the smaller one had stretched a long way, absorbing much of the energy.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Morning Cove, NSW, Oz

[Feral Cat]

IMHO... Double braid polyester is made in basically two types... Dynamic and Static... Static has minimal to no stretch and is used for rescue, window washing etc where stretch is not desired due to human life hanging on it...In a rescue sense it provides a more predictable outcome.

Mountain climber and BOAT rope is desired to be a dynamic type where the stretch is engineered into the construction to provide up to 15% +/- stretch by length prior to snapping...

The outer sheath caries approximately 25% of the ultimate strength of the rope and 75% in the inner core... which I believe will help for calculations on which size you may desire for you use and application, that is even with wear marks on the outer sheath the core should be reasonably intact until you can remove the damaged section.

Rescue and human applications for minimal stretch have built in safety margins when sizing rope to the tune of 15-1 safety factor, rescue operation require a load calculation of 600 lbs so the rope must be 15x stronger than 600# or 9000# rated to be used. Any signs of chafe or wear and the rope is retired.

Way different than the boating world because the concerns are not one of immediately dangerous to life or limb, although sometimes things can get dicey out there on the water, alternatives can and should be used.

Use what you are comfortable with but for chafe, I am thinking that a DYNAMIC double braid (Climbing rope) with a core strength to handle the anchor charts recommendations for the weight of your boat will be perfect for your application. Just remove the 25% strength that the outer core provides from the ultimate rope capability and this should provide you with the actual size rope to use. This thought process will provide more than adequate strength even when some chafe has occurred.

As with any rope application you must always practice good stewardship and continually monitor the rope for any signs of wear and tear. Any huge shock loads on the rope would also make me suspicious of the remaining life of the rope. I am not sure how to gage this with a rope used for anchor but in rescue situations the rope is removed from service anytime there is a shock load placed upon the rope, but then again this is a situation where peoples lives are in stake, potentially, immediately!

Hope this helps.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Artif

I used some of my retired climbing ropes on my boat, they were 10 years old before they met my boat, they then did another 7 years on my boat with no obvious ill effects other than the colour fade, but this happened in the first couple of years of climbing.
I must add, I would definitely not use them for climbing on again.

Nor would I, but I can see many uses for long lengths of 1/2 inch...lunch hooks, stern anchor rodes, painters, bridles and even spare sheets.

So I should find some and start experimenting.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Feral Cat

IMHO... Double braid polyester is made in basically two types... Dynamic and Static... Static has minimal to no stretch and is used for rescue, window washing etc where stretch is not desired due to human life hanging on it...In a rescue sense it provides a more predictable outcome.

Mountain climber and BOAT rope is desired to be a dynamic type where the stretch is engineered into the construction to provide up to 15% +/- stretch by length prior to snapping...

The outer sheath caries approximately 25% of the ultimate strength of the rope and 75% in the inner core... which I believe will help for calculations on which size you may desire for you use and application, that is even with wear marks on the outer sheath the core should be reasonably intact until you can remove the damaged section.

Rescue and human applications for minimal stretch have built in safety margins when sizing rope to the tune of 15-1 safety factor, rescue operation require a load calculation of 600 lbs so the rope must be 15x stronger than 600# or 9000# rated to be used. Any signs of chafe or wear and the rope is retired.

Way different than the boating world because the concerns are not one of immediately dangerous to life or limb, although sometimes things can get dicey out there on the water, alternatives can and should be used.

Use what you are comfortable with but for chafe, I am thinking that a DYNAMIC double braid (Climbing rope) with a core strength to handle the anchor charts recommendations for the weight of your boat will be perfect for your application. Just remove the 25% strength that the outer core provides from the ultimate rope capability and this should provide you with the actual size rope to use. This thought process will provide more than adequate strength even when some chafe has occurred.

As with any rope application you must always practice good stewardship and continually monitor the rope for any signs of wear and tear. Any huge shock loads on the rope would also make me suspicious of the remaining life of the rope. I am not sure how to gage this with a rope used for anchor but in rescue situations the rope is removed from service anytime there is a shock load placed upon the rope, but then again this is a situation where peoples lives are in stake, potentially, immediately!

Hope this helps.

Yes, it does. Obviously, used line is used line and should be employed appropriately. But I would imagine plenty of uses aboard for it that would save "boat line" for critical things like tow lines, etc.

Thanks for providing the definitions.

[Kettlewell]

Sort of OT, but it perpetually amazes me how people try to save a few bucks by not using the proper line for things. After Hurricane Bob I examined lots of boats that blew up on beaches and rocks all over New England. In quite a few cases the problem appeared to be inadequately sized lines, lack of chafing gear, no extra scope, or even in some cases old lines spliced with things like square knots. Before big storms I'm always patrolling the boats around me trying to see if they have proper chafing gear, and they almost never do. I have also observed this problem in marinas where a lot of dock lines look like they should have been retired by the Pharoahs a few millenia ago. One nice new boat worth probably $150,000 at least that I helped rescue broke free from its mooring when the 3/8" nylon painter parted. This was a boat in the mid-30-foot range! I really don't get the point of saving a few bucks on line while the value of the vessel is in the many thousands or hundreds of thousands. Maybe a lot of folks have too good an insurance policy.

[David M]

Not mentioned yet, for the same material, the thicker it is the longer it will take to wear through.

[boatman61]

I find the most Chaff Resistant rope is the one passing through some nylon hose/tube as it goes over the bow....
everything else gets all fluffy...

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by David M

Not mentioned yet, for the same material, the thicker it is the longer it will take to wear through.

But the quality of the line/rope can change that dramatically. I've seen identical diameter lines from two different companies where one hardly looks worn and the other has already parted in some conditions.

The real issue is chafe and where/how you attach a line. Way too many boats have lousy cleat/chock set-ups. You could have 1" line and chafe gear on some boats and it would still chafe through in a 24 hour gale...yet the same boat...you could use 1/4 inch, hardware store line on a snap hook and it would hold...with a few small wear marks on the cleat/fiberglass. So it take the human eye to see what's going to chafe or not...all the formulas and manufacturer suggestions go out the window once you tie that line off.

[Kettlewell]

I was able to obtain an old BoatUS study of nylon and polyester lines done after Hurricane Gloria. The theory that polyester would make for better mooring and docking lines was proposed by MIT/SeaGrant after numerous line failures during the hurricane. They set up a test rig at the Virginia School of Engineering, and did both static and dynamic loading tests on 3-strand and double-braid nylon and polyester line. Anyway, the bottom line conclusion of the dynamic loading tests was that there wasn't much to choose between polyester and nylon, though double-braid nylon did somewhat better in terms of breaking strength than anything else. So, for a given rope diameter, it appears that double-braid nylon is the way to go in terms of strength and durability, but 3-strand nylon does provide significantly more stretch and therefore more cushioning. They also ran a pure chafing test and the conclusion was that nylon withstood chafe better than polyester.

[Dragon Lady]

When I was racing on a friends boat a few years ago, the spinnaker sheet winches were rather agresive on the spinnaker sheets.
We found that the kevlar sheets lasted about 1 and half to double the time that the spectra sheets lasted. We never used poly so I can't compare.
I don't know if it worth comparing as it is rather expensive, I've also found that Donaghy's double braid has the best abrasion resistance on my daughters racing dinghy.
Both these lines have a very stiff and rough outer sheath.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I was able to obtain an old BoatUS study of nylon and polyester lines done after Hurricane Gloria. ...

➥ BoatUS.com: Hurricane Resource Center - Hurricane Preparation

➥ BoatUS.com - Seaworthy Magazine

[lancelot9898]

While 3 strand offers more stretch over the double braid there are pluses and minus to be considered. Already mentioned is the build up of heat by the more stretch action of the 3 strand, but more shock absortion is a positive atribute. However that shock absorption can be achieved by use of snubbers and smaller diameter lines and/or longer lines. One thing not mentioned is that the stretch characterics can be a negative in hurricane force winds. I was anchored with 80 feet of chain which was spiced to 3 strand line during a cat 1 hurricane. Had maybe 60 plus feet of line out in addition to that 80 feet of chain. There were times when the boat behaved like it was on the end of a rubber band with sudden acceleration after a wind gust/shift. It's just a matter of determining just how much stretch is desireable. I stayed with using 3 strand mainly because I read somewhere that the coating put of the line helps in reducing chafe. Not sure how accurate that claim is or how well that coating ages. If I was doing it over today I'ld probably go with a double braid(no kinks) and then maybe a 3 strand bridle.?? Don't plan to ever stay aboard during another hurricane.