Mantus: Which size for our boat?

[Jarel Design]

Hello,
Let me begin with: Please: This is NOT intended as a “which anchor” thread… Rather which size anchor for our particular boat and cruising plans? I’ve chosen to go with the Mantus and trying to decide between the 25# and 35#.
My wife and I both have a long history of water sailing">blue water sailing in larger boats when we lived near the ocean, (but now being landlocked in Oregon), have chosen the trailerable Chrysler 26 swing keel (Specs below if you’re not familiar with it.)
Why this boat? We can easily trailer her where we want to spend time cruising. We’re tired of “being out there” and look forward to coastal “gunk-holing”. There is a LOT of room inside (sleeps six), has 6’ standing headroom, partial wrap around galley, enclosed head (We spent a month on board at a large lake to see if we could really go longer… We were very surprised!) She also has an anchor locker and the 2,000 iron keel stays predominantly outside the hull (low), when up, (the swing keel is surrounded by a permanent keel pocket (mostly outside the hull), with an additional 900# of ballast). She’s sensitive at first but becomes solid at around 15 to 20 degrees heel, is easily motored and sails well.
Chrysler 26:
LOA: 26’
Beam: 8’
Draft: 6’ 4” (down), 2’ 3” (up)
Displacement: 5,000#
Hull speed: 6.25
Capsize: 1.75
Comfort: 22.95
Stability: 1.10

I’ve read just about every post in every thread on every website (for months!), about anchors, anchoring, etc. and our boat comes “in between” the Mantus factory posted specs for this anchor. (Yes, I’ve read and “know” that the larger the anchor (up to a point) the better.) The boat came with a genuine 7.5kg Bruce (20’ – 30’) and a Fortress FX7 (28’ – 32’), and I wish both were one size up!

We want to use the Mantus as our primary anchor each night, believing that we’d rather set a larger, more secure anchor nightly (just in case), rather than store a separate “storm anchor” “if” things get “bad” (I believe “if” should be “when”!), We can add our other anchors if we “have to”, and will keep them (or size them up), for that purpose.

On the Mantus website, their “conservative” anchor size ratings (Based by them as chosen with “poor” bottom and “higher wind” conditions considered), are as follows:

25#
<35knts: 30’ – 35’ (<15,000lbs)
<60knts: 20’ -30’ (<11,000lbs)
>60kts: 14’ 20’ (<5,000lbs)

35#
<35kts: 35’-39’ (<20,000lbs)
<60kts: 30’ -35’ (<15,000lbs)
>60kts: 20’30’ (<11,000lbs)

We have a long shaft, electric start, 9.9 4-stroke designed for high thrust (large 4-blade prop), low speed and will be using that for setting. I’ve read on several occasions that having “too large” an anchor could be a problem regarding setting without enough displacement or reverse power and wonder if the 35# falls into that category for us?

We’d like to go with the smaller (25#), anchor, both for ease of handling as well as limited room on the bow (I’ll be building a short HD sprit with roller), as neither size will fit in the locker. BUT we also want to be able to sleep well through the night! (We’re planning on getting some sort of anchor dragging alarm in addition to the one on our GPS, but would like it if that never comes to be needed! LOL!).)

My conservative guestimate is that, fully loaded, we shouldn’t be more than 7,000lbs gross. With the exception of “possibly” crossing to the Bahamas, we intend to stay close to shore with no over-night passage making. Our super shallow draft should allow us to get into some more “protected” anchorages when anticipating the weather getting bad.

Questions: (And I know there are NEVER any guarantees with sailing/cruising… Just searching for more input): What are the chances of getting caught in 60kt+ conditions? I personally wish we could go with the 35#, but there’s a part of me that “thinks” this might be “overkill”. We will have access to weather reports Both via VHF and laptop (Wi-Fi booster antennae), and checking weather will be a daily if not bi-daily habit.

We will not have a windlass, we’re both 61 years old and will be dealing with the weight of the anchor plus 45’ of 5/16” chain being set and pulled by hand frequently. Our cruising plans: San Juan Islands, Sea of Cortez (we’ve done both), and focusing on the ICW, “possibly” sailing over to the Bahamas, which we have not sailed before.

We’d like opinions/experiences from those with boats close (Up to 30’ LOA and similar Displacement), to our own who have done the ICW through the Florida Keys and the Bahamas.

(Sorry if some of this post seems “headstrong” (?), but for those of you who have also gone through the countless anchor threads (some several hundred posts long), I didn’t want to even get close to a “which anchor” discussion… Just wanting thoughts and opinions on choosing between the 25# or 35# Mantus for our boat, and our cruising plans.

Thank you so much!
Richard & Tresa

[Dockhead]

Kudos for having done all that research -- in fact, I think you might be overthinking it somewhat!

I don't think you need an actual "storm anchor" on a boat you can pull out of the water onto your own trailer. And overloading the bow of a 5,000 pound boat is not a good idea, if you care about how she sails.

So I would say you should just size it according to the maker's recommendation.

The 25 pound one looks fine to me.

For comparison: Rocna (who have quite a good "knowledge base") say their 10kg anchor is good for 5 tonnes of boat (5 metric tons, so 11,000 pounds), more than double yours, and 9 meters of length or 30'.

Handling an anchor bigger than that without a windlass will be problematic, and will create other risks.


I wouldn't overthink it too much -- buy an anchor and go sailing!

And be sure to post about your adventures.

[Sailmonkey]

Fwiw we've got a 35 lb Manson on our 32' 15k lb ketch. It's been quite adequate, I would consider it too large for a 26' trailer boat. It's held us comfortably in 50 knot winds, in good bottoms.

For your boat I personally would be quite happy with a 25# mantus.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Orion Jim]

I'm several feet longer and several thousand pounds heavier and I'm well served by a Spade 35# and a Mantus 25#. In your situation I'd be very comfortable relying on the Mantus 25# with a reasonable amount of 5/16 chain and 1/2" nylon rode.

[Jarel Design]

Thanks Guys! Especially for including boat size/weight and size anchor! It really gives me some perspective...

I'm "thinking" that anything over 60kts would be forecast (hopefully) with enough time to go back to home base (Probably Tampa where some friends offered to store our truck and trailer), and pick up the trailer... But, being the retired firefighter/boy scout, I want to be prepared enough to handle some strong winds without the trailer...

I'm thinking that with the 25#, along with the Bruce and the fortress, I should be able to set out enough tackle to calm our nerves if it ever gets that bad...I know enough to seek shelter, McGuiver style mangrove, hard points on shore etc to make it safer... Although, having been out there... I don't think nerves ever get calmed until "after". LOL!

I want to share that Tresa and I met on Match.com 10 years ago (married for 5yrs), and although she knew I was a sailor (Profile photo of me on my boat), I didn't know she was until our second date, meeting her family and their asking if sailing was a "hobby"?... HA! No way! It's a religious experience! As i was trying to explain different points of sail and what putting the rail under along with the sound of tight rigging "singing", she added (after I was done): "You forgot the luffing on the Jib! ... You are describing a broad reach aren't you?)

I kid you not, I thanked god out loud right then and there! Not only did she know enough to know I forgot that detail, but she knew what a broad reach was!!! She was a REAL sailor (not just a passenger!) Turns out she worked charter sailboats for a while... and not just as a hostess/cook! She told me a story where the skipper was injured and she had to sail the boat back to port solo on her own!

God could not have been kinder to me!!!! =D
Don't think I could get luckier than that!!!

Thanks for the input again!

Richard

[Jim Cate]

g'day Richard,

First, I too believe that the 25 pound anchor will serve well as a bower and as a storm anchor for your boat. With the possibility of adding one of the spares on its own rode "ust in case", I think you are well cared for.

And having a sig other who is a true sailor... well, I share your good fortune, and am ever thankful for it!. You must expect a certain amount of jealousy, perhaps kidnap attemps, but hang on to her! Lucky us!

Jim

[hugosalt]

So great for you both!
Agree with all above on the 25 lb.
I have been using a Mantus 25 as primary on my 9,000 lb. 30' for last few years
(retiring my Delta 35) along with 100' of 1/4" chain plus 200' 1/2" rode.
Has served me well in wind up to 50 kts. in a boat that sails at anchor big time.
Few points may be of help if space/fit an issue...(after discussion with Greg of Mantus) this year I removed bar and anchored with no problem in mostly sand and mud.
Also use 8 plait 1/2" rode which takes up fraction of space compared to my old 3 strand.
It does not kink and pays out nicely every time.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Richard & Tresa.

[a64pilot]

Why 5/16" chain?
I think that too is a lot of unnecessary weight and expense?

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Why 5/16" chain?
I think that too is a lot of unnecessary weight and expense?

+1

I would go for 1/4" ht chain followed by nylon with a thimble and shackle. You're hauling by hand, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[groundtackle]

JD, I like #25 lb ish size too. Also agree with a64p in the 5/16" chain choice. Consider the 1/4". After blasting around the Cortez on our own vessel with 100' we found ourself right on that chain/rope union, another 25' would be just about right. Yes it's heavy, perhaps that longer chain rode could be stowed below. Use the shorter chain/rope for milder conditions. Having that backup is good idea.
ce

[Jarel Design]

Thank you everyone for all the great information, feedback and examples of what you’re using!!! (Your specifics of boat size, weight, anchor type, size and tackle along with your experiences were absolutely invaluable, helping me to get such a better grasp of reality.)


=D


I had originally thought of using 5/16” chain and 5/8” rode, but those “original” choices were right alongside my looking at the 35# Mantus… (Paranoid? I’m the type of guy who always turns knives lying on a counter so the pointy end is not facing the edge… LOL!) As a firefighter, I’ve seen so many “simple” mistakes turn tragic. Anchoring is one of those things that I just don’t want to worry about.)


I had forgotten a thread I read about comparing heavier/shorter chain to lighter/longer chain and the physics explained regarding lifting the longer chain at the bow and how much remained flat on the bottom, extending the time of horizontal pull on the anchor. The extra length on the bottom also provides some elasticity/stretch between anchor and boat as the chain is pulled further up off the bottom in higher winds.


So, here’s what we’ve decided:
We’re going with the 25 pound Mantus.
50’ of ¼” Hi Test chain
150’ of 8 plait braid, ½” rode.


This will give us “approximately” 200’. Taking into account 4’ from water line to bow, but not from my bow to my cleat and a tie off in the anchor locker, this would allow me a 10:1 scope in almost 20’ of water, 7:1 scope in 28’ of water and a 5:1 scope in almost 40’ of water. That should cover just about anything we plan to encounter (especially with our swing keel!)… Also, with 50’ of chain, it looks like I’ll need to make a nylon snubber bridle for shallower waters. Do they make metal attachment hooks for ¼” chain? (I haven’t looked yet.)


I searched the net for a “set” (Pre-spliced rode and chain), but almost everyone sells their line with such a small amount of chain! Most everyone has a 15’ length!


I found one on Ebay that allows the buyer to choose. The above combo I want would be $325! (Yikes!) I could save about $100 if I learn to splice my own… (Funny, because I’m such a knot freak (expert)? Used to rock climb, was a firefighter etc…), yet I never did learn to splice and it’s been on my “to do” list for years! I also believe that I NEED to learn to do this just in case I need to make repairs (like all the other systems on a boat! LOL!)


Also, I was surprised to find rodes spiced directly to the chain. All the tackle I’ve previously owned had a SS shackle between line and chain (no windlass). Any thoughts on both?


Another question: I had planned on using 3 strand nylon. Strengths seem to be the same. Besides being more supple and easier to stow, are there any other advantages to the 8 plait braid? The 3 strand is cheaper!


I have to do a lot more shopping for prices… There are SO many more modifications I plan for our boat including a composting head and rebuilding the galley to include an Engel fridge/freezer with lots of insulation along with a stern arch to support the solar panels… (Yeah, I know…. Just go now…. But, we ‘re not able to go right now AND, we REALLY want comfort!!! (We both have a LOT of experience “adventure traveling”: Tresa built her own 20’ touring canoe and paddled it for 4 months from Montana to the east coast and I rode a mountain bicycle for 7 months, from LA to Belize, up the east coast to Canada, across Canada and then back down the west coast… many years before we ever met and the one thing we want (besides safety), is comfort! LOL! No carrying Ice back and forth, able to keep fresh produce & meat longer (ability to freeze fresh caught fish), no power shortages, no portapottie or holding tank smell, no pump outs, etc…) BTW: I design and build prototypes for a living (20 years +), have a shop with just about every tool you’d ever want and can design and build ANYTHING LOL! (See: www.jareldesign.com) I was featured on a Discovery channel series: “Million Dollar Genius”… I love my job and what I can build; I can create much quicker than most. The shop is less than 20’ from the boat.


We’re planning a shakedown cruise (first time on the ocean with this boat), out of Marina del Rey (My old sailing haunt), in Los Angles this coming summer. Complete any mods left or altered by our experience after that and then hoping to get to the ICW next winter.


Thanks again guys!!! MANY THANKS! I received so much more useful information than I was expecting!


Best,
Richard & Tresa

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Jarel Design

Hello,
Let me begin with: Please: This is NOT intended as a “which anchor” thread… Rather which size anchor for our particular boat and cruising plans? I’ve chosen to go with the Mantus and trying to decide between the 25# and 35#.
My wife and I both have a long history of blue water sailing in larger boats when we lived near the ocean, (but now being landlocked in Oregon), have chosen the trailerable Chrysler 26 swing keel (Specs below if you’re not familiar with it.)
Why this boat? We can easily trailer her where we want to spend time cruising. We’re tired of “being out there” and look forward to coastal “gunk-holing”. There is a LOT of room inside (sleeps six), has 6’ standing headroom, partial wrap around galley, enclosed head (We spent a month on board at a large lake to see if we could really go longer… We were very surprised!) She also has an anchor locker and the 2,000 iron keel stays predominantly outside the hull (low), when up, (the swing keel is surrounded by a permanent keel pocket (mostly outside the hull), with an additional 900# of ballast). She’s sensitive at first but becomes solid at around 15 to 20 degrees heel, is easily motored and sails well.
Chrysler 26:
LOA: 26’
Beam: 8’
Draft: 6’ 4” (down), 2’ 3” (up)
Displacement: 5,000#
Hull speed: 6.25
Capsize: 1.75
Comfort: 22.95
Stability: 1.10

I’ve read just about every post in every thread on every website (for months!), about anchors, anchoring, etc. and our boat comes “in between” the Mantus factory posted specs for this anchor. (Yes, I’ve read and “know” that the larger the anchor (up to a point) the better.) The boat came with a genuine 7.5kg Bruce (20’ – 30’) and a Fortress FX7 (28’ – 32’), and I wish both were one size up!

We want to use the Mantus as our primary anchor each night, believing that we’d rather set a larger, more secure anchor nightly (just in case), rather than store a separate “storm anchor” “if” things get “bad” (I believe “if” should be “when”!), We can add our other anchors if we “have to”, and will keep them (or size them up), for that purpose.

On the Mantus website, their “conservative” anchor size ratings (Based by them as chosen with “poor” bottom and “higher wind” conditions considered), are as follows:

25#
<35knts: 30’ – 35’ (<15,000lbs)
<60knts: 20’ -30’ (<11,000lbs)
>60kts: 14’ 20’ (<5,000lbs)

35#
<35kts: 35’-39’ (<20,000lbs)
<60kts: 30’ -35’ (<15,000lbs)
>60kts: 20’30’ (<11,000lbs)

We have a long shaft, electric start, 9.9 4-stroke designed for high thrust (large 4-blade prop), low speed and will be using that for setting. I’ve read on several occasions that having “too large” an anchor could be a problem regarding setting without enough displacement or reverse power and wonder if the 35# falls into that category for us?

We’d like to go with the smaller (25#), anchor, both for ease of handling as well as limited room on the bow (I’ll be building a short HD sprit with roller), as neither size will fit in the locker. BUT we also want to be able to sleep well through the night! (We’re planning on getting some sort of anchor dragging alarm in addition to the one on our GPS, but would like it if that never comes to be needed! LOL!).)

My conservative guestimate is that, fully loaded, we shouldn’t be more than 7,000lbs gross. With the exception of “possibly” crossing to the Bahamas, we intend to stay close to shore with no over-night passage making. Our super shallow draft should allow us to get into some more “protected” anchorages when anticipating the weather getting bad.

Questions: (And I know there are NEVER any guarantees with sailing/cruising… Just searching for more input): What are the chances of getting caught in 60kt+ conditions? I personally wish we could go with the 35#, but there’s a part of me that “thinks” this might be “overkill”. We will have access to weather reports Both via VHF and laptop (Wi-Fi booster antennae), and checking weather will be a daily if not bi-daily habit.

We will not have a windlass, we’re both 61 years old and will be dealing with the weight of the anchor plus 45’ of 5/16” chain being set and pulled by hand frequently. Our cruising plans: San Juan Islands, Sea of Cortez (we’ve done both), and focusing on the ICW, “possibly” sailing over to the Bahamas, which we have not sailed before.

We’d like opinions/experiences from those with boats close (Up to 30’ LOA and similar Displacement), to our own who have done the ICW through the Florida Keys and the Bahamas.

(Sorry if some of this post seems “headstrong” (?), but for those of you who have also gone through the countless anchor threads (some several hundred posts long), I didn’t want to even get close to a “which anchor” discussion… Just wanting thoughts and opinions on choosing between the 25# or 35# Mantus for our boat, and our cruising plans.

Thank you so much!
Richard & Tresa

Chrysler 26 is a pretty nice trailer sailer, a bit on the heavy side and needs a stout tow vehicle, but it is a decent, stable, sailor.

The 25 lb Mantus will be more than enough.

If you are anchored and 60 knots hits, you will be bugging out and heading downwind for better protection. If you have an anchor that will hold the boat in those conditions, it will be smashed to bits because of it.

[iliohale]

I had a question on Mantus anchor sizing so I sent an email to the factory with all the specs on the boat we plan to purchase. They were great in coming back to me with good information including recommended chain size and swivel. I have found the Mantus people to be extremely helpful and interested in working with you to find the right solution.

[Jarel Design]

Thank you for suggesting I contact Mantus directly (Banging my head: Why didn't I think of that?!? LOL!) Sounds like they're great people! I'll contact them this week (Working on a client prototype deadline at the moment... I really shouldn't be here now... just addicted and the cruising fire is stoked white hot! LOL!)

Since “cruising” has to start somewhere and usually it begins on the hard (long before we reach water), I thought I’d share where we are now and what we’re dealing with.


Dayenu has been covered tightly for over 2 years since we got her, stripped and rebuilt/refinished all the teak (We LOVE teak! LOL!), and did our first shake down at the lake (I forgot about a lot of the items/equipment that we already had! It was almost like Christmas!). I was also surprised to see just how much work we put into her when we first got her.


We had covered her with a HD canvas tarp after our last time out, but there was no way to gain access. With the rain, winds and snow we get up here in Oregon, I wanted to create a protected “tent”, so that we could go up and still do some work over the winter. We already had a MAJOR storm come through the PNW a couple of weeks ago and our structure held fast!
=D


I crimped the bottom of the vertical pipes (1”), so that they’d stay put when I poured the 60lbs of concrete into each bucket. My studio is behind the forward facing windows and my shop extends behind on the port side. There’s a door to the studio and a double door (breezeway) behind that that allows us to move items between the shop and the boat.


One of the things I want to do is re-build the galley, extending part of it towards the bow (shortening part of the port side seating), adding a fold down counter top extension there, and also extend the counter top across the companion way bulkhead to serve double duty as the first step down into the cabin and support a cutting board/additional counter space. I’ll do this by starting with outlining the refrigerator/freezer compartment along with about 5” of insulation and creating cardboard patterns/templates to see how everything fits (Sink and stove), as well as how it works ergonomically while standing at the galley, trying to gain access to the port side seating and gaining access to the cabin through the companionway. This will be probably be done after I get the Engel components (Although I seem to remember saving drawings of those components), and before I tear anything out.


Just thought I’d share part of our plans along with some update photos… I probably should start a new thread to share our refit journey?



Any ideas as to what forum I should start this kind of thread? I’m sure this will be a teaching kind of thread as I’ll be photo-documenting everything as I do with my professional prototype work for clients.


Thanks again to everyone! (Still so much more to research! It’s “what I do”! LOL!)
Richard