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Old 20-04-2017, 18:30   #241
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Re: Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

Have you seen this thread?

Photos of Anchors Setting
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Old 20-04-2017, 18:33   #242
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Re: Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

@Deep,

I've seen the thread but have not looked at it. I'm still working through my backlog of Kardashian photos, they sounded more entertaining. Is there something there I should see? Should I be embarassed?

Yea Gads...102 pages!
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Old 20-04-2017, 18:45   #243
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Re: Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

After busting your holding tank I should say so...ooops, that's another thread.

I don't know if you SHOULD do anything but its an interesting thread. Lots of pictures of good and bad anchoring techniques and good and bad anchors.
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Old 20-04-2017, 19:14   #244
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Re: Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

Oh NO! I misspoke, 179 pages and growing.

Far more than the Kardashians.
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Old 21-04-2017, 05:04   #245
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Re: Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

[QUOTE=evm1024;2375939]I break anchors down into a few generations.

"The old generation (CQR, Luke, etc)

The last generation (Delta, Bruce etc)

The new generation (Mantus, Manson, Rocna etc)

And a special generation (Fortress etc)"

Whenever someone creates a list like this, there ends up being missing products (I guess these products are relegated to 'etc.'). What I do know that there is at least one fast setting, superior holding, and exceptionally strong anchor brand missing by name from this listing. I suspect there are others as well.

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Old 21-04-2017, 05:33   #246
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Re: Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

[QUOTE=Steve Bedford;2376191]
Quote:
Originally Posted by evm1024 View Post
I break anchors down into a few generations.

"The old generation (CQR, Luke, etc)

The last generation (Delta, Bruce etc)

The new generation (Mantus, Manson, Rocna etc)

And a special generation (Fortress etc)"

Whenever someone creates a list like this, there ends up being missing products (I guess these products are relegated to 'etc.'). What I do know that there is at least one fast setting, superior holding, and exceptionally strong anchor brand missing by name from this listing. I suspect there are others as well.

Steve Bedford
Definitely the Spade is missing, arguably because if not for that innovative concave "scoop" design, then Manson/Rocna and later Mantus might not exist.

And of course the SUPER MAX, which as far as I know, predates the above designs.
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Old 21-04-2017, 06:22   #247
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Re: Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

"Definitely the Spade is missing, arguably because if not for that innovative concave "scoop" design, then Manson/Rocna and later Mantus might not exist.

And of course the SUPER MAX, which as far as I know, predates the above designs."

Of course predating depends on which designs are being referenced. I believe the Luke was a 19th century design, CQR is 1934, Danforth and Delta are 1940's, and Bruce 1970's. Max Anchors, concave design, were patented1993 and Super MAX Anchors (same concave design but different steel specs) were started in 1996 but dales began in 1997. Spade Anchors, I believe, are 1998. I can not locate a concave design anchor prior to the MAX Anchor. Perhaps there is one and I am in error.

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Old 21-04-2017, 06:37   #248
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Re: Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

Similar to categorizing people by age, race, religion, or sex orientation; labeling anchors will eventually lead to pitfalls.

Better to treat them has individuals.


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Old 21-04-2017, 07:11   #249
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Re: Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

[QUOTE=Steve Bedford;2376191]
Quote:
Originally Posted by evm1024 View Post
I break anchors down into a few generations.

"The old generation (CQR, Luke, etc)

The last generation (Delta, Bruce etc)

The new generation (Mantus, Manson, Rocna etc)

And a special generation (Fortress etc)"

Whenever someone creates a list like this, there ends up being missing products (I guess these products are relegated to 'etc.'). What I do know that there is at least one fast setting, superior holding, and exceptionally strong anchor brand missing by name from this listing. I suspect there are others as well.

Steve Bedford
No intention to make a comprehensive taxonomy of anchors.

The point made stands - new generation (and special) anchors stand heads above old generation anchors and the last generation covers the space between.
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Old 21-04-2017, 08:04   #250
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Re: Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

"The point made stands - new generation (and special) anchors stand heads above old generation anchors and the last generation covers the space between."

Understand. However, leaving one or two anchors out without a "designation" leads a reader to make an assumption as to where this "non-mentioned" anchor belongs. Is it a new generation, special anchor, or old generation. I feel this statement, "anchors stand above" is unfair. There a lot of very pleased captains with anchors you did not mention that they feel stand "above others" based on their own experience as well as independent testing. As I always have said, there are great anchors out there to choose from. Not all anchors work the same or as well in certain situations. An anchor that beats the forces of Mother Nature is indeed the best anchor.

I will not speak for Spade but based on this designation list and since the MAX and Super MAX was the probably the first concave fluke design and since it was introduced long after the old generation anchors and since it's patent date does not "qualify" for someone's designation as a "new generation, I will be proud to be a "special" anchor. However, I am not sure what "special" means because there are many many people with a Fortress as a main bower. Same for the Super MAX as a main bower. I would definitely not support that a Super MAX is only appropriate for special situations. I would call a Fortress, a Super MAX, and a Spade as a "special" anchor in a different interpretation of special.

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Old 21-04-2017, 08:20   #251
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Re: Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

C'mon, he used ETC. in each of his mentions. Rather than bash him for not being "all inclusive" why not just add to the list?
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Old 21-04-2017, 08:33   #252
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Re: Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
...So, to sum up my 2˘, look at your system from anchor to attachment point, get the heaviest new gen anchor you can handle, match the rode to your max anticipated wind load. Check/upgrade your attachment points to hold that load. Spend what you need to have a decent system appropriate to your cruising ground. Forget bling. Relax.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
There are literally thousands of happy owners of Rocna, Manson, Spade, Mantus and other modern anchors. All of them are way better than older designs. There may be small differences in performance between the models, and the differences may change in varied conditions. To argue about the superiority of one over another is a waste of time and bandwidth. Buy one that meets your budget, that fits your bow setup and is available in your area, and stop obsessing about minor matters of superiority.
I’m with these two learned fellows.

Trying to argue which “new gen” anchor is best is like fighting over which shade of blue is the nicest. Best will depend on the situation, but they all seem do do a pretty good job when used appropriately. BTW, for me, “new gen” includes Spade and Super Max, along with Mantus, Rocna, Manson, and probably a few others.

Your bower should be the largest “new gen” anchor that you and your boat systems can reasonably manage under most conditions. This anchor needs to be properly matched with windlass, adequate rode, roller, shackles, snubbers and deck attachments. Get the one that fits best with your system. And learn to use it properly.

I’ve seen boats with the identical anchor to mine try and anchor next to me in the same conditions, and watched them fail time and time again b/c of poor technique. New gen anchors are more forgiving of bad technique, and bigger is better (to a point) when it comes to getting a good set. But no anchor will hold a cruising boat when the wind pipes up unless it is set properly.
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Old 21-04-2017, 09:12   #253
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Re: Mantus Anchor or Rocna ?

First, I agree with Mike ORielly's comments.

Second, "C'mon, he used ETC. in each of his mentions. Rather than bash him for not being "all inclusive" why not just add to the list?"

I don't believe I was bashing anyone. However, that is up to the interpretation of others. If my comments are deemed bashing to then I apologize. For those who know me, bashing someone else and another anchor is not my style. I am just pointing out that "etc" is not acceptable to me and I believe I am adding something to the discussion regarding clarifications of categorizing anchors.

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