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Old 06-02-2018, 17:58   #1
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Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

Seems that Mantus anchors are a hit with this forum. I want to upgrade the "standard" Lagoon 450 anchor (18kg Delta), and the Mantus seems like a great option.

First question - which size? Is 86 lb sufficient and will it fit my existing (original) bow-roller without modification?

Second question - the bolts. Any concerns with them loosening over time. This would be my primary anchor and needing to check the bolts each time I anchor might sway me towards a Rocna or Manson.

Mantus pricing seems more attractive.
Mantus 85 = $850
Rocna 88 = $1125 at Defender

Thanks!
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Old 06-02-2018, 18:03   #2
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Re: Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

The Mantus comes with lock washers for the bolts. Seems unlikely to come apart if you tighten down.
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Old 06-02-2018, 18:07   #3
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Re: Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

If you’re especially worried about the bolts, red loctite will essentially weld the thing together.
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Old 06-02-2018, 18:18   #4
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Re: Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

Yes - I thought that as well. Maybe blue (might want to take them apart without a blowtorch). But, what about underwater? Will the Loctite maintain its integrity?

Lock washers and proper torquing works well in many environments. But, soaking in saltwater for potentially days at a time?
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Old 06-02-2018, 18:26   #5
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Re: Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

I use loctite in an oilfield application where it is subjected to 15,000’ of water depth with salinity and temperature far higher than any ocean. When the equipment is returned to the surface the loctite is quite happy to keep doing its job much to my chagrin.
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Old 06-02-2018, 18:37   #6
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Re: Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

Salt water and weeks underwater are not going to make a bolt turn against a lock washer. If the lockwasher corroded away then maybe.

If you're concerned just inspect the nuts and bolts when you raise the anchor.
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Old 06-02-2018, 19:07   #7
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Re: Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

Agreed, checking is always the option. But, on a welded anchor (e.g. Rocna, Manson) there are no inspections.

I read that the Mantus is so over designed that even one bolt will maintain the anchor's integrity. OK, maybe. That is great.

Anyone out there use the Mantus as the main anchor, really worked it, and never have a problem with the bolts?
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Old 06-02-2018, 19:17   #8
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Re: Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mresman View Post
Agreed, checking is always the option. But, on a welded anchor (e.g. Rocna, Manson) there are no inspections.
Nuclear plants inspect all the welds for faults, brittleness, etc. Silly and not really relevant but the point being, any way to attach two pieces of metal could be suspect. Considering the loads and environment that an anchor is subjected to I don't think we need to worry about welds or bolts, assuming each is done properly.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mresman View Post
I read that the Mantus is so over designed that even one bolt will maintain the anchor's integrity. OK, maybe. That is great.
Haven't tested one of the bolts myself but I understand they do use graded bolts. And I have read the company line that does say one bolt is strong enough to hold the anchor together.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mresman View Post
Anyone out there use the Mantus as the main anchor, Yes really worked it[COLOR="royalblue"]Not in a serious storm or what have youCOLOR], and never have a problem with the bolts? None.
Based on my experience with nuts and bolts on boats, you are more likely to have them stuck and impossible to remove than to fall off. That has been the case with every galvanized anchor shackle I've ever used for any period of time.
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Old 06-02-2018, 19:25   #9
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Re: Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

Mresman,
Mantus are popular but not for everyone. Just consider the Excel and I know it fits.
I would confidently spec the 450 anchor as-
#7 36kg/80lb Galvanized Excel = $1316 cdn or $1052 usd.
If you feel you need it -
#8 40kg/88lb Galvanized Excel = $1449cdn or $1158 usd.
We have the Vancouver and Seattle boat shows -10% special running till the end of Feb. That might cover the shipping.
If you really want bolts we have an Excel aluminum version at half the weight with almost the same holding power. The shank/ fluke interlocks so the bolts are not loaded, just keeps them locked. Gives you a full size spare that fits right in.
We have sold a number of #7 / 36kg and only one #8 / 40kg for the 450. I'm curious as to other 450 owners responses.
Worth a look,
Thanks, Chris
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Old 06-02-2018, 20:07   #10
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Re: Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

Quote "I want to upgrade the "standard" Lagoon 450 anchor (18kg Delta)"

Please tell me that is not the standard anchor for a Lagoon 450, only 18kg. Mine came with a 25kg and that is my spare now.

The Rocna 40 kg will fit straight on (no mods required) for what its worth.

3 1/2 years of use and so far never had any issues what so ever.

Which one do you want to trust your boat with.

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Old 07-02-2018, 10:36   #11
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Re: Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

PaulinOz,
Ya, I didn't even want to touch that 18kg Delta comment. We just came back from doing Vancouver and Seattle boat shows. Id guess 70% of the new vessels come with the undersized Delta Fastset and half those in the weaker stainless versions. They need to supply something and the Delta will keep the total vessel package price down. Unfortunately many new owners hang onto those little things far to long and in many cases the boat is sold and those new owners assume the gear is properly sized.
The fastset does sorta work and Steve's video show it's limitations (thanks Steve).
Delta Anchor Testing. Anchor Video #70

Now Paul and others, please don't think I'm starting another anchor war. I would personally like a solid anchor conversation out of this.
To answer your question?
"Which one do you want to trust your boat with."
I'm happy to hear (as are you) in 3 1/2 years you have never had an issue. Perhaps the substrates are different down there compared to the PNW. We have some sticky clay/heavy bottoms. Recent glacier activity has provided some excellent holding once you get it in. I'm sure you've seen Steve's rocna video and failure to reset with a muddied fluke. His vids show a very common theme among all anchors and a real detriment to anchors with more of a concave shape. The Delta and in the past my go to CQR plow has sometimes performed better being toe weighted and surfaces stay relatively clean. It is common knowledge an uncontrolled mud surface won't go back in (like mud on your shovel). Concave roll bar anchors also get a weight imbalance that stops them from sitting upright in attack mode, they sail along the bottom. Throw some eelgrass in there and it just gets worse.

I don't always buy the 'bigger is better' argument. That 40kg rocna is a big anchor that introduces issues like windlass requirements and overall weight on a weight sensitive vessel. I'm sure your windlass is up for the the job and I'd like to know exactly what windlass you are using? We also must factor in that additional bulk of seafloor brought free and clear of the surface.
To finally answer your question personally in our area...neither. For you and others they have performed and have a history of success, I would never argue that.

Sometimes I hate this anchor salesman job I signed up for, and therefore must do my plug, sorry everyone;
How about anchor that performs well, it is aggressive therefore allows a lighter anchor and related systems. It comes up cleaner and thus resets better than any anchor I have ever played with. It fits most boats. Its certified and incredibly strong. priced right. Just consider the EXCEL. Plug over.

Re mantus bolts and the discussed anchor size bolts. I was doing some maths last night. They spec (6x) 5/8" stainless bolts for those anchors. I'm sure Greg at mantus would never claim holding on (1) bolt but (2) in opposite corners might. (4) in the corners no problem. Loose one bolt and its just fine. The bolts will not be the weak link in that anchor.
I'm not a fan of lock or spring washers in a corrosive environment. They rot out and we have a loose bolts, happens all the time. We have dissimilar metals so you do need to keep an eye on them for that and oxygen deprivation. I guess I would use a nylox and Tefgel, lanicote or Res-q-steel.

Again, I hope to stir up a good conversation so we can all sleep good out there. She will make me sell the boat if its no fun anymore...
Cheers, Chris
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Old 07-02-2018, 11:20   #12
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Re: Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

I am also thinking about a mantus for the L400... Quite not sure about the weight, Currently i guess is a 25kg delta on board
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Old 07-02-2018, 13:07   #13
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Re: Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

I am not trying to be pro/con any brand or style of anchor as such. Just posted what I used to indicate that it would fit and work satisfactorily on the boat in question ie: Lagoon 450 in my little patch of ocean.

I can neither or will I comment on what will fit on any other size/brand of boat other than my L421 that has a 33 Kg Rocna on it. Because I have no first hand knowledge of it.

Quote: "I don't always buy the 'bigger is better' argument."

In what particular situation do you feel a smaller anchor of the same brand and style, will hold better than a larger one of same brand and style ???


Quote "That 40kg rocna is a big anchor that introduces issues like windlass requirements and overall weight on a weight sensitive vessel."

Once again based only on the vessel that is in question here. The Lagoon 450 has been called a lot of things but I doubt it has ever been refereed to as weight sensitive, with a payload of over 5,000 kg, so not that weight sensitive to an extra 15 kg.

It also uses a 13mm short link chain, that weighs aprox 4 Kg/meter so the addition of a 40 Kg anchor over a 25 Kg anchor (my vessel) is just like retrieving said anchor with windlass in water that is 3.5 meters deeper than with the 25 Kg version.

The Quick DH4 1700 12 volt is fitted as standard to the L450 it has:
Max pull: 1150 Kg
Max working Load: 470 Kg
Working Load : 115 Kg
So it has no issues at all coping with a 40 Kg anchor.

There has been situations in which I could not get the anchor to set and hold to my satisfaction (full revs reverse on two 54 HP's for 60 seconds), in these cases we moved a bit and re-set. Usually very weedy or very sloppy mud.

What ever gives you a good nights sleep on anchor is the correct choice. IMHO
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Old 07-02-2018, 14:38   #14
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Re: Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

Good point about the dissimilar metals. I wonder why not galvanized bolts, lock washers, nuts.

With such an over design, the strength of the bolt does not seem to be a concern. Dissimilar metals often cause hidden problems.
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Old 07-02-2018, 17:17   #15
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Re: Lagoon 450 + Mantus Anchors + bolts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mresman View Post
Good point about the dissimilar metals. I wonder why not galvanized bolts, lock washers, nuts.

With such an over design, the strength of the bolt does not seem to be a concern. Dissimilar metals often cause hidden problems.
On my Mantus anchor the bolts, nuts and washers are all galvanized and appear to be the same material.
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