Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-07-2009, 17:25   #31
Registered User
 
Triguy's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ventura CA
Boat: 45' Hortsman Trimaran; Troika
Posts: 7
I am with you 100% on the C or D-link - as I hinted in my earlier post the reason I don't use a C-link is because they are too big for the chainpipe of my (now dead) Maxwell windlass. I expect that the Anchorlift windlass I am sussing out will be able to swallow something much bigger. Looks like it could break my little split link anyway. And best of all the C-link is easy to remove.
__________________

__________________
Triguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2009, 17:58   #32
Marine Service Provider
 
GMac's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North of the Bridge, thankfully
Boat: R930
Posts: 1,659
Ahhhh.. we maybe talking about differing C Links. The ones I mean are a hammer on, boltcutter off sort. No way you could reuse them. Actually I suppose you could but it would fall into the 'The would ya' category. Crosby call them 'Missing Links'.

2 C shaped bits which when joined and the nipples peened over make one complete chain link.

They should have worked in Maxwell perfectly fine.
__________________

__________________
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2009, 18:06   #33
Registered User
 
Triguy's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ventura CA
Boat: 45' Hortsman Trimaran; Troika
Posts: 7
Right, lines crossed. The C-link you refer too is what I have now, it glides seamlessly through the gypsy and chainpipe. Problem is that they are 1/2 the strength of Hi-test. I overcame some that problem part way by using the next size up (3/8 link on a 5/16 chain) and it works fine.

To get full strength out of my chain, I plan to use a larger, removable link, that is if it won't jam my new windlass.
__________________
Triguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2009, 18:26   #34
Registered User
 
Albro359's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Elyse is in Fiji
Boat: Amel Super Maramu 2000
Posts: 510
my 2 bobs worth....don't buy "another 50m of chain"....buy 100m and don't join it....no joins is the ONLY way to go...all those chain joiners are MUCH weaker than the original chain...I wouldn't chance it.

Alan
__________________
Albro359 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2009, 18:56   #35
Marine Service Provider
 
GMac's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North of the Bridge, thankfully
Boat: R930
Posts: 1,659
No they aren't 1/2 the strength of the Hi Test or at least good ones aren't. The Maggi and Crosby are G30 fittings and both being made by very reputable companies will exceed the published loads by a degree.

You've fallen into the WLL comparison trick. It's very common. Sorry if I'm telling you something you already know but just explaining it for the watchers who may not.

All chains and fittings used by boats all usually have a 4:1 safety margin. By that I mean the WLL is 1/4 of the break load. The one weird exception to that is in the US with what is called 'Hi Test'. It doesn't happen out side the US or with other US grades, only that specific one in that country only. What they do with the G40 there is they lower safety margin which in turn gives an elevated WLL. The chain is still a grade 40 just as it is in the EU, NZ or Timbuktu just those places use the standard 4:1 margin so show a lower WLL.

So what happens is people compare WLL's to see the HiTest being a lot stronger when in fact it really just a smoke and mirrors game with the load numbers. One might say the great US marketing machine has struck and struck very well indeed. It also means many think they have some super chain when in fact it's far from it and they are actually inadvertently and unknowingly pushing the boundaries possibly a lot more than the boat anchored next to them.

So you are still sort of right but just a little off with your numbers. The Hi Test is only 20-25% stronger than a BBB, G30 and what 90% of the world cruisers are anchored on right now. And at the same time the same amount above the good C links. But as the good links have a non published margin on top of the published break they aren't that far away at all. We've busted Maggi ones and none have gone below 5600kg, a few have hit 6000kg. A G30 chain or fitting should have 5000kg min bust, a G40 6400kg min bust. So the Maggis C links are in the middle of the 2 grades. We have zero reason to think Crosby would be any less and in fact would expect a little higher again (just the way they make them).

So Yes the C Links are a little lower but not much at all than the Hi Test chian once you align all the safety margins using the same basis. And as most of the world cruisers are only on G30 chains without worries, I'm happy saying a good C link in a Hi Test chain is fine.

Why am I so happy saying that? There are literally 1000's of these links in use as I write. Also manufacturing has moved on and the good ones are made better than they used to be. Also 99.9% of the nay-sayers are only repeating one of the many urban myths that are rampant in the anchoring system game. Try and find someone who has actually had one fail on them, I think you'll find it easier to find an honest politician.

You'll also find many of the nay-sayers are a lot more happier with their bog standard shackle even though most of those have loads far far below a good C link. Most commercial bog standard shackles are very low load. Weird I know but as I deal in this stuff day in day out, we've seen and heard it all. Most of 'it' is usually quite wrong and based on hear-say and theories that were valid when the Pilgrims or Cpt Cook were sailing the oceans but well off the mark in todays world. It's not rocket science to find out what is and isn't good.

And all of that isn't even getting into the low quality stretch early break low chain that many have, often unknowingly.

But like all boating and most other gear these days, there is 'bloody good', 'OK' and 'just crap' out there when talking quality. The key is to know what you're buying, which I admit can be bloody tricky at times. The best advice on that I can offer is ask country of manufacture, while not fool proof it's a reasonably good guide. I think most know which countries have a long history of making good reliable products.
__________________
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2009, 19:08   #36
Registered User
 
Albro359's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Elyse is in Fiji
Boat: Amel Super Maramu 2000
Posts: 510
All things being equal (which they usually aren't) continuous chain will be stronger than a joined chain...what's the point of joining a weaker chain with a stronger joiner ? That's the same as a strong chain with a weak joiner.
Same goes with the anchor shackle..it should be the best quality you can get - at least as strong as the chain...and well secured.

And the end of the chain needs to be shackled with an equally strong shackle to a very strong anchor point inside the boat.

Sure all these things are expensive but how much is your boat and your life worth....

Buy the best..forget about joiners

Capt Cook's first mate
__________________
Albro359 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2009, 21:05   #37
Marine Service Provider
 
GMac's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North of the Bridge, thankfully
Boat: R930
Posts: 1,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albro359 View Post
Capt Cook's first mate
nice.

While I'm not sure about spending just for spendings sake, if you aren't sure or it just makes you happier to go one way over another, I'd say go for it.

The 'feel good' factor is massive and often very hard to quantify in $$ terms. We often specify a lot gear bigger than is required just for that very reason alone.
__________________
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2009, 22:36   #38
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
About shackling the end of the chain to a strong point on the boat..... I would not recommend that. It is better to tie (splice) a piece of rope between the chain and that strong point, long enough to appear on deck where it can be cut in an emergency.

I am changing this to an even "smarter" system: in addition to that length of rope, I also splice a 200' length of cheap 3/8" hollow braid polypropylene to the chain. This functions as a nice bed for the chain in the locker (drainage) plus it will be a floating marker to retrieve an abandoned anchor and will hopefully be strong enough to hoist the chain to the surface.

cheers,
Nick.
__________________

__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Joining Chain Boracay Anchoring & Mooring 23 03-05-2011 06:35
How Much Anchor Chain ? Jigsaw Anchoring & Mooring 13 14-12-2010 11:33
3/8 Anchor Chain roscoe Classifieds Archive 2 14-05-2009 14:03
anchor chain johnblow666 Multihull Sailboats 23 26-04-2009 18:54
Anchor Chain Duke 48 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 35 26-01-2009 14:03



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:32.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.