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Old 19-05-2009, 16:41   #16
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geez.... I almost did suggest a swivel! (tongue in cheek!)
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Old 22-05-2009, 22:05   #17
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I've heard of some welding extra large links to the ends of the chain (so up sized hardware can be use to attach their anchor), so why couldn't you just weld in a regular sized link attaching your two pieces? It wouldn't be galvanized, but you paint it with a zinc rich paint and keep an eye on it.

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Old 25-05-2009, 21:27   #18
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I use HT chain and I worry about this because all the connectors I find are not HT and thus much weaker than the chain. So.....do any of you wise folks have a source (not Chinese) for HT connecting links, swivels or similar hardware?

Much Thanks,

TJ
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Old 25-05-2009, 23:01   #19
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Concerning joining anchor chain.... I had to do that a few times during two circumnavigations over 14 years. (You can't always buy long new chains in remote areas.) Assuming you have good, sound heavy duty lengths of chain, you can "notch-cut" each end with a hack saw. Just cut an "x" across each of the two end chain links. Make each cut in the middle of the last link, on one side. When the cross cut is made, you'll have removed two small "v's" of metal from each link. Now feed one "x cut" into the other, and your chains are joined. Using local stainless tig or mig welding, weld up the notches to reproduce the original link shape.The result is neat, and feeds perfectly over the gypsy.
Yes, you have weakened the chain overall, but using the system, I never had chain failure despite many hundreds of anchorings. We experienced winds from zero to Hurricane Luis which was a category 5. Surging lurches at Easter Island were fearsome where our 12 ton yacht kept snatching on rocky ledges but still the 8mm links held.
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Old 26-05-2009, 04:06   #20
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Greetings, and welcome aboard Mike.

Thanks for the neat tip.
Do you have any recommendations on which wire/rod to use?

Look forward to learning more from your experienced knowledge bank.

Quote:
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... Using local stainless tig or mig welding, weld up the notches to reproduce the original link shape. The result is neat, and feeds perfectly over the gypsy.
Yes, you have weakened the chain overall, but using the system, I never had chain failure despite many hundreds of anchorings...
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Old 26-05-2009, 16:22   #21
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Joining chain.

Thanks for that Gord May.
Sorry, but I'm not a welder myself. In each case, I went to locals who specialised in that field. I explained the ideal of not reducing chain strength and temper.They then selected selected their best available mig/tig solution.
A number of times on other yachts I saw this remedy being useful when a cruiser sets off with 2-300ft of chain aboard. He starts his trip in typically shallow Atlantic /Caribbean waters where he seldom needed to lay out more than 100-150 ft of chain. The balance remained in the chain locker and rusts up badly (unless it is wisely rotated end-for-end regularly.) Then he moves to the Pacific, and suddenly finds it fairly common to anchor in 70-90 ft depths, and occasionally deeper. In Galapagos/French Polynesia, he realises his rusted-up part of the chain is ruining his vessel's deck/gypsy/bow-roller/topsides and needs replacing,whilst his first 150 ft is in fine condition. Replacement chain that fits his gypsy is either not available, or unbelievably expensive per metre. That's where it's tempting/practical to buy only what you need, and join it to your still good stuff.
Coral infested waters can be very unforgiving on chain/rope rodes. I'd still go all chain on the main anchor, but save weight by having chain/rope on my secondary rig.
It's also a lot easier to manage over all-chain if you ever need to get an anchor set with a dinghy (kedging-off for instance.) In that case, I used to tow it out with the dinghy in reverse so as to get smooth, safe lay-out direction.
I hope this is helpful.
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Old 29-05-2009, 23:53   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Do you have any recommendations on which wire/rod to use?
The person on the machine wants to be good so should know what gear to use. We use the same method and every time we do one we do 2 or 3 and bust the extras. Done by a welder who knows his or her game well the result is up there with the rest of the chain. One key thing is to watch heat build up, you dont want too much if you can help it. Id like to tell you which gear but even though I weld Im not that flash to do this stuff

You have SS chain Mike?

Good posts to kick off your CF life as well. Nice work and welcome.
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Old 30-05-2009, 01:26   #23
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Hello from New Zealand GMac,
You're absolutely right about avoiding excess heat. Retaining temper in the links is the aim. The few times I had the work done for me, the welders got it right first time. It didn't seem too much of a dark art, though maybe the guys were just very clued-up.
No, I never used stainless steel chain for anything except my dinghy anchor; couldn't ever justify the cost. I went for stainless welds over conventional when a skilled welder put me onto the technique. There's a fairly common grade wire that is made for s/s to conventional steel joins. Overall, I liked using HT chain when available.
Incidentally, I also saw fishing boat owners in remote areas using a neat, cheap way to knock off most of the rust from their chains. They would tow the whole length a few miles behind a pick-up truck on rough, gravelly roads. Afterwards, not having galvanising or coating plants available, they'd just use the chain six more months, then repeat the process.
It sounds crude, but it certainly stopped the serious rust flake mess on the deck and topsides that gypsy pockets under strain can cause.
A few words of caution if you ever try dragging chain on roads......Be very certain no other traffic is around; the stuff can snake like crazy behind you, and 400 ft of chain sliding sideways packs plenty of punch......Also, ensure no road drains are located in any storm gutters alongside that road. I witnesses a guy have the tip of his chain snake into
a gutter grating at speed; the arresting motion nearly tore off the tow bar before it ripped the grating out. In hindsight, he should not have shackled the chain to his towbar. It would have been safer to have tied the end to the towbar with a length of line that would sacrifice in such an incident.
On another occasion, I saw a guy on a surf-washed beach hauling a trailerised fishing boat out of the axle deep sand. He had the right idea, and pulled to one side with his truck to get the trailer twisting. However, he jerked it too hard, and every link for 40 feet of chain collapsed and crushed down on it's neighbour. The chain was almost like a 40ft rod afterwards, but amazingly, it didn't snap. Obviously,years ago, that type of problem is what gave birth to the invention of studlink chain.
It's all been good fun.....
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Old 30-05-2009, 02:09   #24
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Im not a welder. The only reason I ask about specifics, like rod type, is so that Id be in a better position to judge how up on his/her game the candidate welder might be. The more one knows; the more one may judge the expertise of others.

I too, have effectively used the drag method to de-scale shorter lengths of chain (150' max, tied from middle of chain to vehicle, /w 2 ends trailing - no loops); but would be very hesitant to drag longer lengths without assurance that I wont encounter another vehicle.
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Old 30-05-2009, 08:18   #25
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I went for stainless welds over conventional when a skilled welder put me onto the technique. There's a fairly common grade wire that is made for s/s to conventional steel joins.
I think any of the 309 rods/wire would be suitable, but wonder what the perceived advantage is of this "technique"?
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Old 30-05-2009, 08:36   #26
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when you really need it remember, weakest link,oh I forgot it will keep you awake. I would make 2 rodes backup with nylon Ole
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Old 30-05-2009, 10:46   #27
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Anything welded in the field is going to be the weak link, welding melts the metal, the metal is then in the softest "annealed" state.... at least in the heat effected zone and possibly in the weld depending on the wire/rod used. Most chain is resistance welded with axial force which provides some added work hardened strength at the weld. If your chain is Hi Test then it is heat treated also and the field weld wont be.
Regarding the original question, I seems like the best answer for joining chain in the other "swivel forum" recently was the Hammerlock product. At least that's what I gleaned from it. I dont think the Hammerlok is galvanized though (?) so I would coat it with lanolin before assembling and often in use!
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Old 11-07-2009, 12:40   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Anything welded in the field is going to be the weak link, welding melts the metal, the metal is then in the softest "annealed" state.... at least in the heat effected zone and possibly in the weld depending on the wire/rod used. Most chain is resistance welded with axial force which provides some added work hardened strength at the weld. If your chain is Hi Test then it is heat treated also and the field weld wont be.
Regarding the original question, I seems like the best answer for joining chain in the other "swivel forum" recently was the Hammerlock product. At least that's what I gleaned from it. I dont think the Hammerlok is galvanized though (?) so I would coat it with lanolin before assembling and often in use!
The Hammerlock link is forged 316 CRES and looks like your best bet for a reliable, verifiable strength value. I am, however, quite happy with my 316 split-link that is hammered shut. The strenth isn't as high but then I haul in the second 125' of chain when things get rough, or leave. The main thing is that this link goes over my gypsy without a hiccup.
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Old 11-07-2009, 15:40   #29
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Another voice on the matter:
I normally prefer to use the "D" type shackle with a non rotating pin only because it is the easiest to dissemble, to slip a length of chain if you are dragging and have to move out in a hurry. I also keep a float handy to buoy off the chain so I can get it later. I hate to admit to hypocrisy but the 300' of chin now hooked up on my boat is all one piece.

I also use the section of chain with the best conditioned galvanize at the anchor end and always recommend using a nylon bridal or snubber to take the shock out of the chain.

And yes I know that a properly set anchor isn't supposed to drag but they sometimes do and I like to be prepared
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Old 11-07-2009, 16:24   #30
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All reputably made will be heat treated to a degree. The G30 and 40's (or Hi Test as G40 is called in the US) are all normalised to relieve stress's introduced during manufacture. The high grades get more heat attention.

Still can't quite understand why some try to make hard work out of something that can be very easily done. I'd still just use a good C Link, like the 1000's who are currently doing so world wide without a problem.
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