Joining 2 Anchor Rodes

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by DaveOnCudjoe

I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be in an anchoring situation, but when joining 2 ropes together for other purposes I have used bowlines on the ends joined loop to loop and they have held fine. In a pinch that's what I would do. Dave

I've done this too. The bowlines are easy to untie later. I usually put some half-hitches on the end of the lines to make the bowlines a bit more secure. I put the loops together as a reef knot (square knot), thinking that this will reduce the chafe and point-load.

A bowline might reduce the line strength to 60%. Fortunately, in the typical rope/chain anchor rode the nylon line is significantly stronger than the chain.

[Pete7]

That's a lot of chain to have in the bow of a 27ft boat. How about just using the 100ft length and rope for the rest?

However, if you do want to join to lengths of chain how about a C link? have a read of Viv Cox's web:

C-links

[allanpeda]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

... a Carrick Bend is a decent knot for joining the two lines (actually, it's a bend, not a knot). It might be tough to untie though.

Ohboy am I opening up a can of controversy, but I agree with what I have read about Carrick Bend's greatest drawback: the difficulty in getting it right. I humbly suggest either a figure eight. At a the dock I have used a Zepplin (Rosendahl) Bend (with a *lot* of ferry wake yanking away). Zeppelins bends rock if you are concerned about untying and they are dead simple.

The Forgotten Zeppelin Knot
Zeppelin bend - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whenever possible twisted line gets spliced instead of knotted.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

... I put the loops together as a reef knot (square knot), thinking that this will reduce the chafe and point-load...

"There have probably been more lives lost as a result of using a square knot* as a bend (to tie two ropes together) than from the failure of any other half dozen knots combined." (ABOK page 258 - The Ashley book of knots - Google Books ). Never use it for critical loads.
* Reef knot

[allanpeda]

Originally Posted by GordMay

"There have probably been more lives lost as a result of using a square knot* as a bend (to tie two ropes together) than from the failure of any other half dozen knots combined." (ABOK page 258 - The Ashley book of knots - Google Books ). Never use it for critical loads.
* Reef knot

Agreed. Never ever use a square knot. Climbers use figure eights, and I have a strong preference for a Zeppelin bend.

[nigel1]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

A long splice does not increase the diameter of the spliced ropes, and thus will go through any block that the original line will go through. A short splice essentially doubles the diameter.

In the case of splicing an anchor warp, the short splice would be stronger and far less likely to fail in use.

Cheers,

Jim

The long splice also uses up a lot more rope

[nigel1]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I'd eye-splice bot ropes and connect with a shackle. They can be spliced together fine as long as its a long splice and uses the full thickness of each rope, i.e. don't thin the ropes down to make the splice smaller to fit a winch etc.

I would have someone else do the splices becasue I have forgotten how and my recent ones were revolting!

Mark, you pay the trifling air fare, and I'll do all your splices, plus free tuition thrown in, and a couple of mainbrace splices into the bargain as well.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by GordMay

"There have probably been more lives lost as a result of using a square knot* as a bend (to tie two ropes together) than from the failure of any other half dozen knots combined." (ABOK page 258 - The Ashley book of knots - Google Books ). Never use it for critical loads.
* Reef knot

Gordon, remember that I am talking about how to connect two eyes together -- not the same thing at all.

A square knot comes undone by slipping, or by capsizing and slipping. In what I am describing, the eyes are secured by the bowlines and are much less likely to slip. The square knot is just a way to interconnect the eyes: tie one bowline, then as you tie the second bowline run the second line through the first eye in a square knot configuration (or in a sheet bend configuration, which is less likely to jam).

There are more secure ways to connect two lines, but this is quick and easy, and not too weak. The square knot part of it is not an issue.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by nigel1

Mark, you pay the trifling air fare, and I'll do all your splices, plus free tuition thrown in, and a couple of mainbrace splices into the bargain as well.

I don't think you would like it here. Its too sunny and it reflects off the white sandy beaches and its difficult to see the Bikini girls at the beach bar.

[DaveOnCudjoe]

Paul,
It never occured to me to interlace the eyes, what a great idea. Dave

[Jim Cate]

I'm curious why two bowlines are better than a single sheet bend, which has the same structure as a bowline? One can double the sheet bend for additional security, and seize the tails as well if paranoid. Seems easier to tie than two bowlines, just as easy to untie, and no worries about chafe between the loops.

Cheers,

Jim

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I'm curious why two bowlines are better than a single sheet bend, which has the same structure as a bowline? One can double the sheet bend for additional security, and seize the tails as well if paranoid. Seems easier to tie than two bowlines, just as easy to untie, and no worries about chafe between the loops.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim, this is probably just as good, and easier. While the bowline and sheetbend are topologically identical, the strain is coming from different directions and the bowline seems to be slightly more secure than an un-siezed sheet bend (I could be wrong). I personally use the doubled sheet bend, but I've seen data showing that while slightly stronger than a single sheet bend, it actually slips more easily. Seizing the ends would be a good idea for any of these knots.


Double Sheet Bend

Realistically, in anything but storm conditions any decent knot should do. You want something that won't shake loose, won't suffer from chafe, and be easy to untie later. In many cases you will already have a spliced eye on one end of one of the lines, and either a sheet bend or a bowline will be fine. Either one unties without much difficulty. Seizing is a very good idea. Use zip-ties if you can't do a proper light-cord seizing job.

[nigel1]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I don't think you would like it here. Its too sunny and it reflects off the white sandy beaches and its difficult to see the Bikini girls at the beach bar.

Sunglasses???

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Does the OP want to permanently attach the two sections of line? If so, a splice is the best way to go. I do think that getting a new length of line is better than splicing together two old lines. A good splice is extremely strong though.

If on the other hand the second line is to be only occasionally attached (when anchoring in deeper water than usual), two eyesplices on thimbles and a shackle is easiest. In this case you can use an oversized shackle to join the two thimbles so the shackle won't be the weak link.

If you don't want the permanent eyesplices, a Carrick Bend is a decent knot for joining the two lines (actually, it's a bend, not a knot). It might be tough to untie though.

Bingo...everything else is over complication of a simple question...

[Paul Elliott]

Since I enjoy knots, here's a perfectly good Carrick Bend that I have weakened by using bowlines to secure the ends. Note the bowline -- it is a modified form, where the end has been looped around and fed back towards the standing end. This makes the knot quite resistant to shaking free. I don't think it otherwise weakens the knot.

The Carrick bend is fairly strong because the rope doesn't have any tight-radius bends. The main reason I like the Carrick Bend is because it just looks pretty. When you have a choice of equally appropriate knots, why not choose a pretty one?