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Old 17-10-2016, 08:49   #1
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In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

Hello All,
I have recently purchased an '81 Hunter 27 as a liveaboard (surveyed before purchase) for when I repatriate to the States next year. Been gone 19 years, no place I have to be in the States, no family, no place to go, don't know where I want to live, so a small liveaboard makes sense to me for a year or so of coastal cruising living on my USN retirement until I get my act together (Yeah, like THAT will ever happen! Just ask any or all 3 of my ex-wives! )

In the meantime, am going through all of the pre-planning and budgeting that one does, and now it is time to address anchoring and mooring upgrades.

The H27 factory anchoring system that is currently installed consists of nothing more than what appears to be a 6-inch cleat located forward of the anchor locker on the main deck. As I will be spending a lot of time on the hook in the Chesapeake Bay I most certainly need to upgrade the anchoring system here. The current anchor is a 13-lb Danforth on a 150-rode. Am planning to add a second 13-lb Danforth with rode and a 22-lb Danforth with rode (the heavy storm anchor).

I am thinking of installing a sampson post aft of the anchor locker with a couple of 6- or 8-inch cleats mounts a few inches away on either side of the sampson post with a single steel 1/4-inch backing plate for all three fittings installed in the overhead of the V-berth below (Will have to cut into the v-berth overhead liner, but that's a cosmetic issue). Additionally, on either side of the forestay I want to install diagonal chocks (with backing plates) to lead the anchor rode(s) over the bow, while at the same time, leaving the factory installed cleat installed for use while day-anchoring. I would prefer closed chocks but can't seem to find them for sale in smaller rode sizes.

Another docking/mooring issue is that the boat has no amidship cleats. Would like to mount a 8-inch cleat on the port and starboard sides just aft of the aft-most cabin window. Although not exactly amidships, it should give me line clearance in relation to the stanchions. My issue with this installation if the 1-1/2 inch toerail on the boat. I will need to raise the cleat to be installed enough so that the toerail does not cause excessive chafing on the mooring lines. 2-inch Stainless Steel block beneath the cleat? (Will affect holding strength of the cleat itself and cause more stress on the deck.) Mount a chock on a raise block beside the cleat? Grind the toerail down to deck level? Not sure what the best solution is here.

I feel I have a pretty good grasp of what the boat needs in terms of anchoring and mooring in the Ches Bay area, but also know that I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed sometimes as well.....so, looking for wisdom.
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Old 17-10-2016, 08:56   #2
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Re: In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

Get new gen anchor instead of all Danforths. Do you have a bow roller? Chocks are a hazard to your lines, try to avoid them like the plague.

Raise the midship cleats with wood spacers. Don't grind the toerail, you'd regret it.
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Old 17-10-2016, 09:11   #3
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Re: In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

Well, as the owner of your vessel's older brother, a 1978 Hunter 27, I too await any info, as I am currently on the hard in Florida and fixing/updating/upgrading right now for precisely the sort of efforts you have been conducting and will be doing in the near future! Also a Navy vet, I can appreciate the cycling through the wives (on number four), but I do have to hope that I will be successful in maintaining the current one.

I do have a question for you, though. I have not yet been able to raise the headsail on my Hunter because of mast compression damage to the cabin top, which seems only possible to repair with temporary removal of the mast. As my mast is stepped onto a plate and not hinged in any way, I have to use a lift of some sort (sorting that now as well, not sure how it will go) to pull it and reinstall the running rigging a PO removed (fool). While down, I will be rewiring everything and replacing the spreader lights, plus all bulbs, any corroded hardware, etc.

I do wonder how you will maintain clearance for tacking when you add all the mooring hardware to the forward deck, or whether you have roller furling or some other means to prevent tangles while single-handing. If so, how have those measures worked out, and do you see any potential problems beyond minor chafing as you route working lines, etc., because of addition of the deck hardware?

Additionally, there is no genoa track on my hull, and apparently the forward sails simply route through pulleys mounted as needed on the toe rail. Is your vessel set up this way?

Another question I have is about the forward water tankage. I have about a 35 gallon aluminum slab sided tank under the vee berth, but no obvious means of removing it. I am leery of the effects of chlorine on an aluminum tank, and the tank appears to be original. Did you have an aluminum tank, and if so how did you address this problem? I am not loving the thought of cutting the vee deck out, but will do so if required to remove the tank (as my wife cringes with me). As I am going to need to install a black water holding cell anyway (my vessel was designed for head direct discharge and no holding, and I discovered this when I found all the hoses bundled up and plugged in the hull void behind a medicine cabinet). I have a new marine toilet to install, but have to sort the tankage issue first. This means addressing the holding tank, which means addressing the freshwater tank as well, potentially. I could get a small holding tank into the vee through the aft facing door underneath, but it is danged small and that aluminum tank takes a tremendous amount of space up in there...

I don't want to hijack your thread, but as you have a boat within a decade or so of mine, I was hoping my tiller only Cherubini Hunter would benefit from your experience cruising with a model of the same company though not necessarily the same exact building processes.
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Old 17-10-2016, 09:26   #4
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Re: In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

Yeah Stu, My thoughts exactly on grinding the toerails (It was painful just to even suggest it). In retrospect, as per your suggestion, wooden blocks beneath the amidship cleat would be better. Since, being raised, it will already be a weaker mooring point. Should I use steel and should it come loose, it will just grind into the fiberglass deck, where wood would compress somewhat. Better off with a sacrificial wooden block underneath and not expect it to take heavy loads. Thanks for that suggestion!

No bow roller, no place to install one due to the forestay. Chocks on the bow are the lesser of two evils IMO. Sitting in a Nor'Easter relying on the factory installed 6-inch cleat to hold two anchors? I don't think so. That is why I want to install the sampson post, additional cleats and chocks on the bow. FYI, my clearance on deck between the forestay, bow rail and toerail is only about 6-inches (if that) on either side of the forestay. Chafing will be an issue, I am aware of this.

Short of installing hawse pipes for my anchors I don't see a viable alternative (but hawse pipes on a 27-footer would be pretty cool though! ) Actually? I might look into doing that! As it is an old plastic classic , will never be a collector's item, and won't re-sell for what I paid for it....might as well go play and modify away!
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Old 17-10-2016, 09:42   #5
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Re: In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

Hi Sailing Fan, Always good to hear from another Navy vet.
No problem if you hijack the thread as the "Builders" section doesn't have a way to post about Hunters (Maybe the moderators can change this? Hint, Hint). FYI, I purchased my 81 H27 in July of this year and have not stepped foot aboard her yet. The "S/V Coastal Nomad" is currently on the hard in Virginia. I had the $5500 boat surveyed prior to purchase since I was purchasing remotely. I currently live in Hurghada, Egypt and plan on returning to the States in April of next year after living here for 19 years. Please read my profile for additional info.

As such, I'm not qualified to answer your question about mast compression and repairs. However, I have seen over on another forum how someone repaired their compression issue. (somewhere on this forum: hunter.sailboatowners.com )

My watertank is a 25-gallon fiberglass tank which is integral to the hull. Starboard side beneath the V-berth. I have a fiberflass 13-gallon holding tank installed beneath the starboard side settee.

Seems that most of the Hunters built during the Cherubini years came out quite different in a lot of aspects.

Good luck with yours!
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Old 17-10-2016, 20:14   #6
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Re: In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

G'Day Techo,

A couple of thoughts

Midships cleats do not normally take near the load that the bow cleat/sampson post does. Mostly t hey are used for spring lines... Still should be well installed, but what you propose sounds good to me. And a timber spacer is fine, if a good hard timber is used.

A bow roller can be installed off-center... many are just so... and you will be damn glad to have it. Makes hand retrieval so much easier, and will be far less prone to chafe than any chock design. Have a look in the West Marine (or other) catalog. There are a good variety of ready made after market rollers on offer. If you do decide to do the roller (and I think IT is the lesser of two evils!), do put one of your big cleats directly in line with it.

And good cleats aft are important as well. Needed for mooring alongside and for those rare times that you need a stern anchor.

It is good to hear that you are using your remaining time in Egypt to work out some issues with the boat. Must be frustrating as hell to know that she is there waiting for you!
cheers,

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Old 17-10-2016, 21:18   #7
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Re: In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknishn View Post
Hi Sailing Fan, Always good to hear from another Navy vet.
No problem if you hijack the thread as the "Builders" section doesn't have a way to post about Hunters (Maybe the moderators can change this? Hint, Hint). FYI, I purchased my 81 H27 in July of this year and have not stepped foot aboard her yet. The "S/V Coastal Nomad" is currently on the hard in Virginia. I had the $5500 boat surveyed prior to purchase since I was purchasing remotely. I currently live in Hurghada, Egypt and plan on returning to the States in April of next year after living here for 19 years. Please read my profile for additional info.

As such, I'm not qualified to answer your question about mast compression and repairs. However, I have seen over on another forum how someone repaired their compression issue. (somewhere on this forum: hunter.sailboatowners.com )

My watertank is a 25-gallon fiberglass tank which is integral to the hull. Starboard side beneath the V-berth. I have a fiberflass 13-gallon holding tank installed beneath the starboard side settee.

Seems that most of the Hunters built during the Cherubini years came out quite different in a lot of aspects.

Good luck with yours!
Teknishn, Thanks for the rapid reply!

I suppose I could just remove the aluminum tank entirely, perhaps coat it internally with epoxy, and hold water in it, and then install a holding tank as yours was. The prints I obtained online puts a 35 forward in the vee and a 13 on the starboard side, also under the vee. However, it also shows wheel steering and I have none of that! Oh well. So much for similarities in internal fitment! HA HA HA!

I look forward to hearing from you now and then in these threads, so please don't be a stranger! Let me know if you manage to make it to Florida some day! Maybe we can get together and compare praises (or lamentations) about our particular vessels as seen side by side, and get some ideas! I am pretty much overhauling her, it seems.
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Old 17-10-2016, 21:45   #8
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Re: In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

Yes to an anchor alternative, can't stake your faith in 13 lb Danforth. We have a Mantus and really like it.
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Old 18-10-2016, 00:14   #9
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Re: In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

Hey Jim,
Yes, it is a bit frustrating being here in Egypt knowing that the boat is sitting there on the hard just waiting for me. Am on the 6-month countdown now. Although, it is also a good thing that I have this time. Allows me to work through the various wish lists and weed out all of the trivial stuff and start to grasp the financial realities of living in the States again. For example, an ex-wife of mine in the States works at a grocery store and has been sending prices of various food items for my sample monthly food budget. Somewhat amazed to find that I actually spend then same amount or more on food here in Egypt than I will there in the States!

But back on-topic, thanks for the advice on the bow roller. Will have to actually set foot on the boat in order to determine whether or not this is possible. And yes, you are absolutely correct concerning the amidships cleats/spring lines. As I will be single handling, these cleats would make it easier tying up alongside a dock/pier.

The aft cleats could be beefier as well. However, the boat has survived 35-years with them and they surveyed well during the inspection so I don't see a real high priority on changing them out right now but have added it to the "To Do" list to be accomplished at a later date.

And to Seahag: Am still looking at anchors and the Mantus is near the top of my list. Still partial to Danforth's though, but that's just me going with what I know has worked for me in the past (Old dog/new tricks sorta thing).
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Old 18-10-2016, 09:02   #10
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Re: In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

You don't need midship cleats. Tie your dock line directly to the toe rail. The toe rail is structural, very strong. If your line is too fat for the toe rail, install a SS shackle, and tie to that.

I agree with the other posts...lose all those danforths and get a ROCNA. Mount it on a bow roller. There is never space for a bow roller, but somehow we all have them. If you are sailing alone, it is a necessity. Get a second ROCNA with rode and keep it below as a backup. Or in a storm use 2 anchors as required.

If you are on a budget a 10kg bruce with 30' of chain and then 200' rode should also do the trick...thats what I've been using for years on my P30. Your H27 is a small boat, you don't have a ton of space for anything you aren't using.
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Old 18-10-2016, 10:25   #11
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Re: In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

Hamburgking....I like midships cleats! They just look so "yachty" (but I do see your point here, and thank you). For some reason I haven't thought of the toe rail as being a structural component for mooring purposes although I know it is structural. And yes, I am aware of the amount of storage space I have/don't have (but always good to be reminded...Thanks....tossing out another load of stuff now ).

Am currently looking at bow rollers at the moment. Main issue is the distance from the bow to the anchor locker hatch since it is a small boat. Will have to remove the factory installed cleat on the bow to install a roller offset from the forestay. The other side of the forestay will be a chock (yeah, don't say it...chocks are bad). I would like to be able to throw out 3 anchors on three separate rodes in storm conditions up to a Cat 2 Hurricanes (I believe in safety overkill). I also know that there are various alternatives to doing this.

My original question about amidship cleats has been answered fairly well and I will take that information onboard. Thank you everyone for that input.
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Old 18-10-2016, 10:42   #12
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Re: In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

Also checkout The Cherubini Hunters | SailboatOwners.com Forums
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Old 18-10-2016, 10:53   #13
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Re: In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

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Thanks for that. Been there to read the forums. Unable to join because of my location (Egypt).

Best,
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Old 18-10-2016, 13:05   #14
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Re: In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

Techo, IMO while t he toe rail is strong enough to be used as a mooring point, a proper cleat is far more useful than something one must thread a line through for attachment.

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Old 18-10-2016, 13:15   #15
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Re: In search of Anchoring/Mooring upgrade wisdom

Instead of mounting the bow roller on the deck, where you have no space...why not install it on the hull (at the bow of course). It bolts to the outside of the bow, and extends foreword. I've seen this around here...done well it looks very nice, and you still get full function of your anchor locker for your rode.

A quick google to find a pic to demonstrate. Its just to clarify the idea, I think you could do a better job of it.

As for building midship cleats rather than using the toe rail...well, sure...put one more job on your to do list...but until then, the toe rail is ready.
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