Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-01-2018, 04:15   #1
Registered User
 
Markhunter1097's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Hinckley 49, Evening Star, originally owned by Lawrence Rockefeller
Posts: 182
Ideal windlass issue

My ideal windlass has decided not to work, it will spin perfectly until there is a load on it. There is a loud grinding noise when load is applied
I suspect the motor has an issue, batteries are full, is there anything else I should look at before I pull the motor off?
I tried to attach a video of the noise, but no go, so here is a pic instead, it only took an hour and a half to pull up 80meters of chain!Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3774.JPG
Views:	219
Size:	106.7 KB
ID:	161910
__________________

Markhunter1097 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2018, 04:43   #2
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Annapolis MD; currently in New England
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 4,120
Re: Ideal windlass issue

If you're hearing grinding when load is applied it's probably the gearbox, not the motor itself.
__________________

Suijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2018, 05:40   #3
Registered User
 
Bill O's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Boat: Bruce Bingham Andromeda 48
Posts: 311
Re: Ideal windlass issue

We have an Ideal windlass, but haven't had any grinding issues to date. Looking at the 4 bolt deck pattern from the pic, it appears you have a model similar to ours and is either a V3C or V4C (the V3C has a smaller gear box).

Not an expert here but have done some upgrading on our gear box, so I'll throw my thoughts into the hat. Based on the grinding noise, I would start by pulling the motor and inspecting the end drive gear or the motor itself. The motor and end gear are the main drive units in the gear box and unless the end gear broke apart, the gears in the box should be fine (and if the gear lube level was maintained). Before you pull the motor drain the gear box oil. Here is a link that describes the motor removal in more detail.

After removing the motor try to spin the windlass by hand (it will be somewhat difficult) to see if it turns smoothly or grinds. Also inspect the gear lube for metal particles and compare to the metal type at the end of the starter (think the main gears are bronze). Here's a link to the gen. troubleshooting page for reference.

I'm thinking its only the motor that has gone bad. Before you purchase a new motor from Ideal (now owned by Schaefer Marine), try to take your motor to an old school alternator/starter motor repair shop. Essentially these are starter motors so they may be able to fix it cheaper than the price of a replacement. Also they aren't the quickest in turn around, so it may be quicker to look locally for repair.

Would like to know what you find, so keep us updated.

Bill O.
__________________
Bill O.
KB3YMH
http://phoenixketch.blogspot.com/
Bill O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2018, 12:30   #4
Registered User
 
Markhunter1097's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Hinckley 49, Evening Star, originally owned by Lawrence Rockefeller
Posts: 182
Re: Ideal windlass issue

Thanks Bill O for the reply, yes I have emailed Schaefer, but as yet have not heard back from them, thus I asked the crowd.
Will let you know how I go, am starting today with the oil removal, giving myself 3 hours for that.
Markhunter1097 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2018, 15:27   #5
Registered User
 
Markhunter1097's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Hinckley 49, Evening Star, originally owned by Lawrence Rockefeller
Posts: 182
Re: Ideal windlass issue

Schaefer reply

Hello Mark,
I attached some information that might be helpful. It sounds to me that there is a gearing problem.
Best bet is to take the system apart and look at the inside parts.
Do you know your serial number. It would be on the gearcase or motor.

Let me know your thoughts,

Joy Ruel
Schaefer Marine Inc.
Markhunter1097 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2018, 06:03   #6
Registered User
 
Bill O's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Boat: Bruce Bingham Andromeda 48
Posts: 311
Re: Ideal windlass issue

Mark,
When you drained the gear lube did you see any metal bits? How did the worm gear look on the motor?

Don't think you mentioned which model you have V3C or V4C??

Bill O.
__________________
Bill O.
KB3YMH
http://phoenixketch.blogspot.com/
Bill O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2018, 07:11   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
svMarite's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Shannon 43 Ketch
Posts: 83
Re: Ideal windlass issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill O View Post
We have an Ideal windlass, but haven't had any grinding issues to date. Looking at the 4 bolt deck pattern from the pic, it appears you have a model similar to ours and is either a V3C or V4C (the V3C has a smaller gear box).

Not an expert here but have done some upgrading on our gear box, so I'll throw my thoughts into the hat. Based on the grinding noise, I would start by pulling the motor and inspecting the end drive gear or the motor itself. The motor and end gear are the main drive units in the gear box and unless the end gear broke apart, the gears in the box should be fine (and if the gear lube level was maintained). Before you pull the motor drain the gear box oil. Here is a link that describes the motor removal in more detail.

After removing the motor try to spin the windlass by hand (it will be somewhat difficult) to see if it turns smoothly or grinds. Also inspect the gear lube for metal particles and compare to the metal type at the end of the starter (think the main gears are bronze). Here's a link to the gen. troubleshooting page for reference.

I'm thinking its only the motor that has gone bad. Before you purchase a new motor from Ideal (now owned by Schaefer Marine), try to take your motor to an old school alternator/starter motor repair shop. Essentially these are starter motors so they may be able to fix it cheaper than the price of a replacement. Also they aren't the quickest in turn around, so it may be quicker to look locally for repair.

Would like to know what you find, so keep us updated.

Bill O.
Great response
__________________
Smooth sailing and fresh warm breezes,
Tony & Lisa
sv Marite
'87 Shannon 43' Ketch
svMarite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2018, 07:12   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
svMarite's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Shannon 43 Ketch
Posts: 83
Re: Ideal windlass issue

This is a great line - I will follow closely as my 30 yo windlass is due for some love
__________________
Smooth sailing and fresh warm breezes,
Tony & Lisa
sv Marite
'87 Shannon 43' Ketch
svMarite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2018, 10:12   #9
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 5,165
Re: Ideal windlass issue

Assuming the gears are fine, it's either worn brushes or a bad winding in the motor. My dollar is on brushes.

I put a used V3C on the Rose last year. I took the back plate off the motor and removed quite a bit of old brush dust from the back end. I know I have to replace the brushes real soon now.

Anybody have a source for brushes, they are roughly 1/4" x 3/4" and there are four (see photo).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20170528_104623_DRO.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	405.6 KB
ID:	162010  
sailorchic34 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2018, 10:51   #10
Registered User
 
Bill O's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Boat: Bruce Bingham Andromeda 48
Posts: 311
Re: Ideal windlass issue

For the brushes, if you can locate an old school generator/alternator/starter rebuild shop, I'm certain they would have them. Kinda hard to find a shop like that these days.

The owner of my local old school shop just retired, so I'll be looking around for another for future repairs.

Bill O.
__________________
Bill O.
KB3YMH
http://phoenixketch.blogspot.com/
Bill O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2018, 11:19   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 13,358
Re: Ideal windlass issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Assuming the gears are fine, it's either worn brushes or a bad winding in the motor. My dollar is on brushes.

I put a used V3C on the Rose last year. I took the back plate off the motor and removed quite a bit of old brush dust from the back end. I know I have to replace the brushes real soon now.

Anybody have a source for brushes, they are roughly 1/4" x 3/4" and there are four (see photo).
If you can't find the exact brushes then see if you can find an oversized set with the correct kind of leads. Then sand down the brushes to fit the holders in the motor. Done this before and worked fine. The brushes are pretty soft and easy to shape.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2018, 11:20   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
tartansail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tiverton, RI, USA
Boat: ex-Tartan 40
Posts: 618
Images: 1
Re: Ideal windlass issue

Try calling Schaefer and ask for Cliff. He was the problem solver at Ideal and was at Schaefer when I last called a bit over a year ago. If you have the model number he can often help you diagnose over the phone.

I agree that, if the problem is the motor, fixing locally is the way to go.
__________________
- David
S/V Sapphire Tartan 40 #71

tartansail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2018, 11:41   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 13,358
Re: Ideal windlass issue

Grinding noise could be motor, could be gears. I've had motors where the magnets cracked or came off that made grinding noises. Also had gear problems that a bad bearing or bushing caused the noise.

Only way to tell is to get inside and look. If there's a difference in the disassembly, start with the part that's easiest to take apart and put back together. You'll hate yourself if you do the hard part first only to discover it was the easy one.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2018, 14:44   #14
Registered User
 
Markhunter1097's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Hinckley 49, Evening Star, originally owned by Lawrence Rockefeller
Posts: 182
Re: Ideal windlass issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill O View Post
Mark,
When you drained the gear lube did you see any metal bits? How did the worm gear look on the motor?

Don't think you mentioned which model you have V3C or V4C??

Bill O.


I haven’t managed to do anything as yet Bill O, hopefully in the next couple of days I will drain oil and pull motor.
The model is a BWAC, that’s until I find a different model number stamped in the motor/gearbox itself!
Markhunter1097 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2018, 20:59   #15
Moderator
 
sailorchic34's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Boat: Islander 34
Posts: 5,165
Re: Ideal windlass issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
If you can't find the exact brushes then see if you can find an oversized set with the correct kind of leads. Then sand down the brushes to fit the holders in the motor. Done this before and worked fine. The brushes are pretty soft and easy to shape.
That is my fall back.

Near as I can tell the brush holders look very much like a Delco, but I've not found the exact set. Gee mine can't be more then 25 years old. Odd's are it will be fine for another year.

Of course If I can find a NOS brush holder with brushes, it would be a lovely thing to have in the spares box.
__________________

sailorchic34 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
wind, windlass

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When Ideal is not ideal - Cheap source of good hose clamps? svlamorocha Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 29 19-12-2014 08:29
Want To Buy: Rope Capstan for Ideal Windlass msoneji Classifieds Archive 0 06-01-2010 11:54
Ideal Windlass Repair echo455 Anchoring & Mooring 3 22-09-2008 09:16



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:45.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.