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Old 04-12-2008, 12:51   #16
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Originally Posted by Intentional Drifter View Post
One other comment about the Rocna: I've taken to almost always running an anchor buoy/retrieval line with it. I've had two times where it was set very hard and had problems breaking it out. The first time required a quick dive; the second time the buoy line did the trick.

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Thanks for that, certainly an expensive item to loose if snagged. I think I will need to use one a bit more. I have started a new thread on the topic.
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Old 04-12-2008, 13:09   #17
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noelex, what size did you order?

I ask because my boat is a foot shorter LOA with about a half-ton more displacement.

My "problem" is exactly the opposite. I added a 25 kilo Rocna about a month ago, and ever since then the wind has refused to blow any time the hook is in the water.
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Old 04-12-2008, 13:29   #18
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conachair Looks to me as you have one long drag line in the middle! According to your scale that's a 100 meter line and I don't know if you had 100 meters of scope out.
Don't think so. Maybe a little as the anchor reset. Wind was all over the place so the boat would be 180deg relative to the anchor. Had about 65m out, from memory. 50m chain and some nylon octaplait in 11m water on sand. Also didn't have the laptop turned on all the time, thus the straight lines as it logged a new position. But certainly have a lot more faith in the anchor now, though holding is good down there. Beautiful spot too
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Old 04-12-2008, 13:57   #19
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I ask because my boat is a foot shorter LOA with about a half-ton more displacement.

My "problem" is exactly the opposite. I added a 25 kilo Rocna about a month ago, and ever since then the wind has refused to blow any time the hook is in the water.
If you want to swap problems let me know

I have gone for the 55KG model. I know, huge and no doubt way overkill.

My reasoning is that:
I want to be able to anchor in 50Knots sustained ( say 65 Knot gusts) and hold. Reserve over this would be great.
Its only 1 step up size wise from my present anchor (75lb)
The chain needs replacing soon. I can go reduce the thickness from the current 13mm say to a high tensile 10mm and easily save the weight difference even with more chain.
I think it will fit and the anchor winch will take it The boat has an enormous sampson post, bow roller etc to take the forces generated by the anchor.
I hate setting 2 anchors and trying to retrieve them (if they drag). Sounds OK in theory, but is very difficult in practice. (I think the best option is to buoy one and release it but even this is not easy in 50 to 60Knots.)
The extra cost and weight on the bow is small compared to the piece of mind it will give me even if it is overkill.

Note the quoted displacement of my boat are designers figures without provisions tools etc.
Most people think I am mad going this large so I don't think I am a good model to a suitable size.
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Old 04-12-2008, 14:07   #20
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conachair Looks to me as you have one long drag line in the middle! According to your scale that's a 100 meter line and I don't know if you had 100 meters of scope out.
Sorry Dave in my previous reply I thought you were referring to my GPS plot not Conachairs. It was a long night without much sleep.
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Old 04-12-2008, 14:09   #21
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a little mad, perhaps, but...

...I've heard that the only way to know for certain that your anchor is large enough is when the folks in the marina start laughing at it.

I wish you hadn't brought up the whole chain replacement issue, of course. Mine has stood up to a decade of tough use, and I'm guessing I've probably already waited a year too long.

Sigh.
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Old 04-12-2008, 15:28   #22
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Two comments:

RE: anchor buoy lines in the Bahamas -- if those aren't OK, I didn't know that. I never had anybody say anything to me about it. I will add that the buoy is well marked with "Anchor" to keep someone from thinking it is a mooring ball, instead! Can someone confirm whether this is really OK?

RE: knowing your anchor is big enough when people start laughing -- I knew it when The Admiral started laughing as I was hauling the thing to the boat in a dock cart. She kept it up for a couple of months, until one night when it started blowing pretty hard. Another boat was dragging past us, but we held just fine; "rock-steady". I haven't heard any more teasing about it from her.

We use 150' of 3/8 HT chain followed by another 150' of rode, with a 30' nylon bridle (we're on a cat). On Rocna's advice, we do not use a swivel. They said they've seen a few cases of the anchor breaking swivels, so I decided to follow their suggestion. I have to manually untwist the chain every now and then, but not a big deal.

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Old 04-12-2008, 17:56   #23
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So I'm new to the Rocna. I just looked them up on-line. Boy... it looks an awful lot like a Delta with a hoop. Is it really that much different? or should we just be welding a hoop on our Deltas? I've never had an issue with a Delta in a straight pull, but watch out when you change wind directions... and I could see the hoop being useful for resetting... The one advantage of a CQR, even with it's limited straight line holding, is it's ability to stay in ....at least with some wind changes....
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Old 04-12-2008, 18:19   #24
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the Rocna.... it looks an awful lot like a Delta with a hoop.
Please stop the game « it looks like »..

Except the shape of the shank, the Rocna has nothing comparable with the Delta.. just a few points :
- the Delta has a convex (plow shaped) shape – the Rocna a concave shape (just the opposite)
- The Delta has a ballasted tip – The Rocna has no ballast and use the gain of weight to increase the surface area of the blade (more holding) – but therefore does need a BSH to keep the right position.
- The Delta is a good improvement over the CQR
- The Rocna is a huge improvement over the old generation of anchors

Only a few small modifications over the design of one anchor can completely change its characteristics.. in both directions..
The Delta is one anchor, the Rocna another one... as others : the Sarca, the Spade, the Supreme... and even the RAYA, are all different anchors ..
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Old 04-12-2008, 19:32   #25
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Ahh Yes, I see those differences now. The plow design is intended to dig deeper, the more the pull (and it does to my experience), however the world isnt perfect, and sand is ofen only so deep. So then the question is will a "sugar scoop" like the rocna hold better, because it's "scooping more " in a shallow sand situation. I sure love how a Delta sets upright and digs right in. Never found much travel through the sand in a straight pull with a Delta. Now a Bruce will just drag along through sand all day long. Hard to logic that stuff out with anchors, I guess the proof is in t he pudding. It's great someone is still trying for an All-Around anchor.
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Old 04-12-2008, 21:32   #26
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Thanks for that, certainly an expensive item to loose if snagged.
Which is why I am getting Manson Supremes

Unless something new has been revealed recently, they seem to be (to me) pretty much the same anchor and I can get a 3 for 1 deal (close enough)here in Oz, so a bit less pain if one is lost.

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Old 05-12-2008, 01:43   #27
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Now a Bruce will just drag along through sand all day long.
We live next to the Great Sandy straits. As you might guess there's a lot of sandy anchorages here, yet our Bruce anchor never dragged, never moved, not one inch, ever. In 50+ knots, when a nearby boat was trying for about an hour to get his HUGE plough anchor to reset, we simply did not budge. Mind you, it did take a lot to break it out afterwards.

I sold the Bruce along with the old boat, wish I had kept it.
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:19   #28
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I sold the Bruce along with the old boat, wish I had kept it.
Thanks for your comments about the Bruce. On my old boat my plough only dragged once (in very weedy conditions) in well over 1000 nights anchoring.
On my new boat the plough performance has not been reliable at all.
Why I just don’t know.
I am now in the Med where as the previous good experience of the plough was in Australia, but the location I dragged last night is thickish mud and should be good holding.
My anchor is oversize for my boat and the yacht has low windage.
I have met experienced cruisers that have found the performance of the Bruce excellent as you have, others that have found it poor. Why ??
My own observations diving on anchors in the Med and watching other boats drag. Is that the Bruce does not do all that well here. (nor does the plough). The Bruce will usually dig one fluke in a bit, but does not dig in deep. From my diving observations I conclude ( In the hard sand of the Med) the Bruce would hold reliably in light or light to moderate conditions (because it almost always digs in a bit), but not have much hope in strong conditions.
I know that does not fit in with the performance you experienced with the Bruce. I don’t doubt what you say. I have changed from finding a plough fantastic to terrible. It’s like changing religions.
Maybe these vastly different experiences is why anchor threads can sometimes generate heated discussion. ( I love anchor A if it you find it doesn’t work you must be an idiot and not able to anchor correctly, or secretly be marketing Anchor B)
I am hoping my new anchor will solve my problems.
The reports from people using the new generation anchors seem much more consistently positive with the Rocna and Manson supreme gaining almost universal praise.
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Old 05-12-2008, 06:54   #29
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They spent 700 years perfecting the plough....it is DRAGGED behind an ox and turns over the soil....nuff said!!
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Old 05-12-2008, 07:27   #30
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Don't think so. Maybe a little as the anchor reset. Wind was all over the place so the boat would be 180deg relative to the anchor. Had about 65m out, from memory. 50m chain and some nylon octaplait in 11m water on sand. Also didn't have the laptop turned on all the time, thus the straight lines as it logged a new position. But certainly have a lot more faith in the anchor now, though holding is good down there. Beautiful spot too

i take it that the new marina at Del Rey is still out of bounds to all boats?
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